Civilization Mafia - GAME OVER - Barbarians win!

[Whicker]

3 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

Phenomenal construct.

The vanilla start was just fine with the ability to win bids. I fully believe the resolutions was the problem.

I kind of like the resolutions in theory, but the specific phase for them just made the timing a little disjointed (in my opinion). Either have the phases be concurrent, or have it an abbreviated/rush vote. Like 1/3 instead of 1/2 (especially when there were 3 options), that way people can rush the vote through.

Yeah I definitely misjudged how people would take the Resolution phase. Like I thought it would help in scum hunting some. Like in a "why you voting Science? Science is a scum claim!" kind of way. 

I'm glad you liked the construct. 

[gopherwrestler]

1 minute ago, Tk3 said:

ehh..

nobody was harmed physically or emotionally by that lie.

I'm personally not offended by it.

And it is mafia.... I was scum..... so I was scummy

[Tk3]

3 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

At first I was actually really worried Tk3 getting pissed at FJ and LTBF was all made up... and that was gonna make me mad lol

Trust me, it was real, lol.

[Whicker]

1 minute ago, Tk3 said:

I agree.

Hagia was OP, but otherwise the roles were civ sided on the whole.

The issue was that there were 5 of them and they were able to coordinate while we weren't

Yeah the 5 person scum team was the biggest mistake by far. I should have held out for 20-21 total players and made it 15:5. I realized this when Ua inactive died and the scum team was still in control. I was like oh god the civs are going to hate me; I gave them like no shot. 

[Tk3]

okay. I'll talk about this reasonably and respectfully.

I want to apologize to @Famous Jameis and @LetTheBallFly for accusations. And to @Whicker and whomever else for the way it effected the game.

I didn't mean to accuse anyone of cheating (and if I did, I am sorry). I didn't mean to make in personal, and for that I am sorry.

The problem that I have is that it feels like in a way it is two players playing as 1. It feels like multigaming to me and it lessens my experience in these games.

Not that you guys are sharing roles and ruining the game in that way, but when there are two people who will act in each other's interests rather than the interests of their alignments, it is very frustrating to play with.

We've played how many games, and have either of you EVER put in a vote for the other? And every game you defend each other without tangible reasoning. It is difficult to play with, especially when I try to play from a point of logic and expectations.

Sorry that I caused offense. I didn't mean to accuse you of outright cheating, I just find it less fun when people play as a literal pair, regardless of the fact that they are on different teams.

[Whicker]

Anyway, thanks for playing, all. I hope you all still had fun even if this game didn't turn out all that well. I made some sloppy mistakes both in design and in hosting, and it seems like the timing of it wasn't great overall. 

[Tk3]

3 minutes ago, Whicker said:

Yeah the 5 person scum team was the biggest mistake by far. I should have held out for 20-21 total players and made it 15:5. I realized this when Ua inactive died and the scum team was still in control. I was like oh god the civs are going to hate me; I gave them like no shot. 

I said numerous times throughout the game that I felt like the roles were generally civ. I spent most of the game thinking we legitimately had a chance, and even once I knew the invest roles were totally tainted, I still thought we had the numbers to have a chance.

[Tk3]

1 minute ago, Whicker said:

Anyway, thanks for playing, all. I hope you all still had fun even if this game didn't turn out all that well. I made some sloppy mistakes both in design and in hosting, and it seems like the timing of it wasn't great overall. 

Nah man, never apologize.

This was by far my most embarrassing, disappointing, and brutal beat down in my mafia career, and I am walking away from it with begrudging respect, not upset at fairness or anything else.

I really dig a new construct, and sometimes you have NO idea how it will play. Never apologize for or hold back from trying something new.

This game was awesome, it needs a little workshopping, but objectively it was really cool.

[theuntouchable]

7 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

I agree.

Hagia was OP, but otherwise the roles were civ sided on the whole.

The issue was that there were 5 of them and they were able to coordinate while we weren't

Yes and no. We still had to guess what wonder was used on what person. The first night was easy because I assumed Notre Dame would be used. After that I assumed ltbf would be chosen based on the heat he took and the tie. Then I assumed I would be chosen as one f the last “non clears” left. That was another reason I wanted to hit raves because I thought he was a god choice door bcbs move as well.

[Raves]

4 minutes ago, Whicker said:

The Resolutions were mostly supposed to be town-sided. Like Cultural heritage sites LOOKS like it's scum sided, but I think town knowing which Wonders were built is a huge advantage to them. 

What roles did you think were imbalanced? Other than the Hagia Sophia which I admit I misjudged, I thought the roles were very town sided. Basically every era they got a new protector role and it's not like mafia could coordinate that well to get them

It was also partially the civ based roles felt weak overall.  I guess maybe the individual roles might've been fine, though there were a lot of dead roles that would've been better as 1-shot roles, but a lot if they got into the scum hands felt OP.  Hagia for example was super scummy role that destroyed the game, besides 5 scum, the resolutions outside of N1 seemed scum favored either by giving them extra information or straight up giving them singled sided advantage.

[Dome]

10 minutes ago, Whicker said:

Yeah the 5 person scum team was the biggest mistake by far. I should have held out for 20-21 total players and made it 15:5. I realized this when Ua inactive died and the scum team was still in control. I was like oh god the civs are going to hate me; I gave them like no shot. 

Now worries. It happens. Balancing is always iffy, especially in a setup like this. Things can get really swingy regardless of the ratios sometimes 

[theuntouchable]

26 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

Yo,

The entire 2nd half of the game I was like... Someone is pulling strings that I can't track.

I thought it was Dome.

And I knew it was Hagia related.

I wanted you out because I knew you were the most dangerous potential mafia, but you had like... 5 corroborated pieces of evidence between BCB and the Colosseum that I don't know how I could have stuck with my guns.

That was exactly why I did it how I did. When I saw I had ltbf and gopher I didn’t know how they would do so I wanted to make sure I couldn’t get linked to them. So I kept my identity hidden in chatty. I knew if I was one of the last ones left people would want me gone so I opted to take the Great Wall and convince those guys to hit me. I HAD to have evidence that I was civ so I made sure it happened. I also pushed gopher and ltbf hard hoping to get the response @bucsfan333 gave. I also told them to add the vote on to me because I wanted it to come down to me and mission. 

although what’s really strange is that I played the same way I do as a civ and usually there’s 2 or 3 people that find me scummy and at least one that desperately wants me lynched. Almost no one thought I was scum until after the Notre Dame move. 

[Raves]

12 minutes ago, Whicker said:

Yeah the 5 person scum team was the biggest mistake by far. I should have held out for 20-21 total players and made it 15:5. I realized this when Ua inactive died and the scum team was still in control. I was like oh god the civs are going to hate me; I gave them like no shot. 

I think you could've maybe modified a resolution to benefit the civs and give them more information, something like in the night where we had to pick between giving the scum an extra wonder or letting them fast build a wonder, you could've added something civ based.  "Scum get an extra wonder they fall to the bottom of the order for the day" "Scum get to fast build a wonder, current ratio is revealed"  

[theuntouchable]

7 minutes ago, Raves said:

It was also partially the civ based roles felt weak overall.  I guess maybe the individual roles might've been fine, though there were a lot of dead roles that would've been better as 1-shot roles, but a lot if they got into the scum hands felt OP.  Hagia for example was super scummy role that destroyed the game, besides 5 scum, the resolutions outside of N1 seemed scum favored either by giving them extra information or straight up giving them singled sided advantage.

You’re still ignoring the fact that we had to pick the correct players. You’re not looking at it objectively.

[Tk3]

Just now, theuntouchable said:

That was exactly why I did it how I did. When I saw I had ltbf and gopher I didn’t know how they would do so I wanted to make sure I couldn’t get linked to them. So I kept my identity hidden in chatty. I knew if I was one of the last ones left people would want me gone so I opted to take the Great Wall and convince those guys to hit me. I HAD to have evidence that I was civ so I made sure it happened. I also pushed gopher and ltbf hard hoping to get the response @bucsfan333 gave. I also told them to add the vote on to me because I wanted it to come down to me and mission. 

although what’s really strange is that I played the same way I do as a civ and usually there’s 2 or 3 people that find me scummy and at least one that desperately wants me lynched. Almost no one thought I was scum until after the Notre Dame move. 

I had you in my mind. Especially after N2 (maybe?) when I realized you had gotten no push at all. Literally no pressure plus not being hit had me thinking about it.

I wasn't going to come out with it until I was ready to commit to it and push it.

We also did no favor by just piling on and fast lynching so many players.