Apparition Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I'll repeat what I said elsewhere: The only two viable paths to winning in this league is either to luck out and draft a QB who develops into a high-level player quickly enough to keep an elite roster around him before you have to pay him big money (i.e. the Seahawks in Wilson's first 3 seasons; Steelers during Roethlisberger's first title run; Patriots during their first 3 title runs; Ravens in 2012) or pay the QB big money and hope you're able to build a quality roster around him with whatever resources you have left. Even the Eagles this year, winning a Super Bowl with a backup QB, still fall into the first category because Wentz was such a big part of their success before he got injured. You might be able to luck out and bring in a stopgap who catches fire long enough to win a title (which hasn't happened in a very long time) but you're not going to be able to sustain success outside of one of these two scenarios because eventually either the veteran QB who's been taking you to the playoffs multiple seasons will demand a raise, or the holes in that QB's game will become evident and his success will be curtailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, Starless said: I'll repeat what I said elsewhere: The only two viable paths to winning in this league is either to luck out and draft a QB who develops into a high-level player quickly enough to keep an elite roster around him before you have to pay him big money (i.e. the Seahawks in Wilson's first 3 seasons; Steelers during Roethlisberger's first title run; Patriots during their first 3 title runs; Ravens in 2012) or pay the QB big money and hope you're able to build a quality roster around him with whatever resources you have left. Even the Eagles this year, winning a Super Bowl with a backup QB, still fall into the first category because Wentz was such a big part of their success before he got injured. You might be able to luck out and bring in a stopgap who catches fire long enough to win a title (which hasn't happened in a very long time) but you're not going to be able to sustain success outside of one of these two scenarios because eventually either the veteran QB who's been taking you to the playoffs multiple seasons will demand a raise, or the holes in that QB's game will become evident and his success will be curtailed. I agree with this. I would also add that in both situations, hitting on a high percentage of draft picks/value FA/trades is needed to surround the QB with a capable team to make a deep playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I wonder if we don't see QB's in the future just ask for a major signing bonus and not too much of a contract in terms of cap hit. That way they get rewarded for their play leading up to the contract AND don't have to worry about sucking the cap with a bloated contract going forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchup Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: I wonder if we don't see QB's in the future just ask for a major signing bonus and not too much of a contract in terms of cap hit. That way they get rewarded for their play leading up to the contract AND don't have to worry about sucking the cap with a bloated contract going forward? Any money that is paid to a player is counted towards the cap, even signing bonuses. They can be spread out of the course of 5 years but it still counts against the cap. At least that’s my understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just now, Ketchup said: Any money that is paid to a player is counted towards the cap, even signing bonuses. They can be spread out of the course of 5 years but it still counts against the cap. At least that’s my understanding. I may just be ignorant on the subject, but when teams restructure, I always hear about them converting something into a signing bonus to free up cap space. Am I misunderstanding what's happening in these situations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchup Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just now, Darth Pees said: I may just be ignorant on the subject, but when teams restructure, I always hear about them converting something into a signing bonus to free up cap space. Am I misunderstanding what's happening in these situations? There essentially kicking the can down the road in terms of cap. Teams do that to spread a single year cap it over multiple years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanLegend Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 It's why it's hilarious to hear so many QBs say "I only care about winning". Cause a $15 mil a year contract ain't enough to feed his family, needs $25-30 mil a year and to sink his team in terms of cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: I may just be ignorant on the subject, but when teams restructure, I always hear about them converting something into a signing bonus to free up cap space. Am I misunderstanding what's happening in these situations? Contract extensions will convert money that is owed (Signing bonus, base salary, other bonus) into a "new" signing bonus. That new signing bonus is spread out over the course of the contract length EXAMPLE: Darth Pees has 1 year remaining that is a Base salary of $10M His team does a contract extension for a total of 4 years (3 additional years). That $10M base salary is converted to a signing bonus and counts 1/4 for each of the 4 years of the contract, $2.5M each. There will need to be a base salary (at least the vet minimum, lets say its $1M for Darth Pees). The team has gained $6.5M in cap space ($10M is now $2.5M signing bonus + $1M in base salary for the current year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 If a team don’t have a QB then they aren’t relevant. Simple as that. I will say though that paying a QB big money a team has to hit on the draft like the Saints did because the cap situation cripples the team. If you look at the teams that have talented rosters, teams like the Rams, Eagles, and Vikings, those teams have little invested in the QB position. In the Vikings case, they don’t have a QB now because all three are FAs. My point is you need a QB to be relevant so giving the big money to a QB that an organization views as a franchise/starting caliber is worth it, but once that QB gets paid the big bucks that team better scout well to find those cheap FAs and hit on their draft picks. If not then those teams will be screwed for the most part in terms of having a QB but not much else around him to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Would I give a mega deal to Russell Wilson based on what we’ve seen from him? Absolutely. Would I give a mega deal to Kirk Cousins based on what we’ve seen from him? Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 It’s worth it if the QB is worth it. I don’t think either of the two scenarios brought up in the OP are the only avenues when it comes to winning a championship. What we see unfortunately is a lot of undeserving QBs getting huge contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biletnikoff Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 The truth is you really have no clue what the actual take home pay of these guys is. Jimmy Gar could just be making 80 million for all you know . That's still more money than you'l ever see for doing something less useless than throwing a ball. Lol why even bother talking about it like your opinion mattered to billionaire owners? You'l never see 1 million or 80 million in your own life..but you'll talk about if you think a QB is worth that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, biletnikoff said: Lol why even bother talking about it like your opinion mattered to billionaire owners? You'l never see 1 million or 80 million in your own life..but you'll talk about if you think a QB is worth that? Lolwut? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biletnikoff Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said: Lolwut? Really? Yeah,really? Like you'd have any grasp of any difference between 80 or 130 million. Throwing a ball is worth 2 bits in reality. It's worth nothing. It's what children do in the playground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Galaxy Brain speaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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