JAF-N72EX Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 minute ago, youngosu said: Just to put it in perspective. In 2017 there were 16,175 college players eligible for the NFL draft. To think several guys aren't falling through the cracks is absurd. I'm sure there are guys falling through the cracks but not at a high enough rate to justify starting an entire developmental league. Who's gonna coach them to make them better? Walk on pee-wee league coaches looking of something to do? How is that going to help hone the skills of these future stars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Just now, JustAnotherFan said: Again, you can't just assume that there are dozens or hundreds of Sam Mills out there. Good for all over the world. In the NFL each team gets ample reserve slots for any player worth holding onto than be interchangeable at each teams discretion for any player that is worth a damn. They also have the regional combines for any grocery mart bagger that believes in himself. Again, there's no reason to change anything. Actually, there are plenty of reasons to assume there are dozens of Sam Mills out there. For instance, even after 2 seasons in the USFL the NFL still almost missed on Clarence Verdin who made 2 Pro Bowls in the NFL as a punt returner was the 83rd of 84 players taken in the USFL supplemental draft. Ample reserve slots? Seriously? Sam Mills wasn't gonna get his shot at a regional combine. Coaches needed to see him do it at the pro level to convince themselves to go with a 5'9" LB. The Browns coach called him the best LB at the end of training camp he'd seen and still cut him simply because he was short. I guess you are gonna believe what you are gonna believe. I am willing to bet virtually every NFL coach/GM would disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: I'm sure there are guys falling through the cracks but not at a high enough rate to justify starting an entire developmental league. Who's gonna coach them to make them better? Walk on pee-wee league coaches looking of something to do? How is that going to help hone the skills of these future stars? Seriously? You being obtuse on purpose? There are plenty of quality coaches out there too. Jay Gruden coached in both Arena Football and the UFL. I think he is a little better than a pee-wee league coach. The NBA finds coaches for their minor league, the NHL finds coaches for 2 minor league levels, and MLB finds coaches for 5 minor league levels. I think the NFL can find coaches for 1 minor league. And for the record, its not about finding future stars, its about elevating the overall level of play. Even if all the league did was develop better back up QBs it would improve the quality of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, youngosu said: Seriously? You being obtuse on purpose? There are plenty of quality coaches out there too. Jay Gruden coached in both Arena Football and the UFL. I think he is a little better than a pee-wee league coach. The NBA finds coaches for their minor league, the NHL finds coaches for 2 minor league levels, and MLB finds coaches for 5 minor league levels. I think the NFL can find coaches for 1 minor league. And for the record, its not about finding future stars, its about elevating the overall level of play. Even if all the league did was develop better back up QBs it would improve the quality of the NFL. Go ahead and try to convince Jay Gruden to coach a bunch of players that couldn't hack it else where and find the money to further convince him. Good luck. Why not call up **** Vermeil. None of those sports have 90 man rosters either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 A D-league needs to happen and it being held in the offseason for continued player development would do nothing to detract from the NFL and would in turn help their final product. Too much talent is placed by the wayside, and too much quality is lost due to the inevitable and numerous injuries that happen throughout the course of an NFL season. NFL needs to get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Go ahead and try to convince Jay Gruden to coach a bunch of players that couldn't hack it else where and find the money to further convince him. Good luck. Why not call up **** Vermeil. None of those sports have 90 man rosters either. Jesus, you must be being intentionally dense. Gruden did coach in a lower league. I said nothing about having him do it again. He is evidence that their are quality coaches willing to do it. 90 man rosters are only in the OFFSEASON. We are discussing the 1000 or so players that get cut at the end of training camp having somewhere to play. I agree that doing a developmental league in the spring is a bad idea, it didn't work because NFL teams would rather have all 90 players in their offseason program but once the season starts do you honestly believe NFL teams wouldn't want somewhere for the 1000 fringe guys to develop their skills? The fact that the NFL feels the need to have 90 man rosters in the offseason is evidence in support of a developmental league, not evidence against it. And FYI, NHL teams are allowed to have 80 players under club control even though they only use 23 at any given time. MLB has hundreds even though only 25 are active with 40 on the MLB roster. Second FYI, the NFL has been quite clear it needs a development league (the majority of coaches, GMs, players, and owners all agree); they just haven't come to a decision on the best manner of doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: A D-league needs to happen and it being held in the offseason for continued player development would do nothing to detract from the NFL and would in turn help their final product. Too much talent is placed by the wayside, and too much quality is lost due to the inevitable and numerous injuries that happen throughout the course of an NFL season. NFL needs to get it done. NFL teams don't want to send players to an offseason developmental league. That is what killed NFL Europe, they want all 90 players in their offseason program and the cost of NFL Europe was far too high when NFL teams weren't sending players there. It would only be effective if it were in the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, youngosu said: Jesus, you must be being intentionally dense. Or your just being obtuse because another person disagrees with you. 15 minutes ago, youngosu said: Gruden did coach in a lower league. I said nothing about having him do it again. He is evidence that their are quality coaches willing to do it. Oh jesus christ. I got your point. You obviously fail miserably at comprehending. My counter point to that was that you are not going to find enough high quality coaches LIKE gruden(do you get that?) to coach a bunch of players that have already failed in college, TC, CFL, etc. Especially considering the coaching turnover rate in the NFL as it is. 15 minutes ago, youngosu said: do you honestly believe NFL teams wouldn't want somewhere for the 1000 fringe guys to develop their skills? No I don't. Because they already have a system set in place for this reason. 15 minutes ago, youngosu said: And FYI, NHL teams are allowed to have 80 players total even though they only use 23 at any given time. MLB has hundreds even though only 25 are active with 40 on the MLB roster. The point was that it was terrible example by you to try to compare the NBA, MLB and the NHL with the NFL when the roster size limitations between them are significantly different. For them it's necessary to have a developmental league or farm teams, but not in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Or your just being obtuse because another person disagrees with you. Oh jesus christ. I got your point. You obviously fail miserably at comprehending. My counter point to that was that you are not going to find enough high quality coaches LIKE gruden(do you get that?) to coach a bunch of players that have already failed in college, TC, CFL, etc. Especially considering the coaching turnover rate in the NFL as it is. No I don't. Because they already have a system set in place for this reason. The point was that it was terrible example by you to try to compare the NBA, MLB and the NHL with the NFL when the roster size limitations between them are significantly different. For them it's necessary to have a developmental league or farm teams, but not in the NFL. Lol, I notice you ignored the post about the NFL directly disagreeing with your assessment. I am done debating this with you, you keep constantly changing your argument when one argument is discounted. The idea that somehow because the NFL signs 90 guys in the offseason it negates the need for a developmental league might be the most ridiculous argument I have ever read. I'm just gonna leave it with this: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-owners-coaches-say-a-developmental-league-is-needed-and-heres-whats-brewing/ I'll side with the owners, executives, and coaches. And they definitely side with my argument, they just aren't sure what is the best strategy for setting the league up. But you can keep believing whatever nonsense you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 23 minutes ago, youngosu said: NFL teams don't want to send players to an offseason developmental league. That is what killed NFL Europe, they want all 90 players in their offseason program and the cost of NFL Europe was far too high when NFL teams weren't sending players there. It would only be effective if it were in the fall. I can't imagine the NFL creating an additional program that competes with it's seasonal revenue, practice squad players, or lower level assistants that would all be available for coaching during the off season. A spring D-league makes the most sense in that regard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: I can't imagine the NFL creating an additional program that competes with it's seasonal revenue, practice squad players, or lower level assistants that would all be available for coaching during the off season. A spring D-league makes the most sense in that regard You might be right but I don't really agree that it would be anymore of an issue than it is for every other sport. I don't understand why anyone thinks the NFL is special in this regard. Every other league has its developmental league following a virtually identical schedule. Of course they often also have offseason development programs (Arizona Fall League for MLB, NBA summer league for the NBA, etc...) but I don't see MLB being hurt by AAA baseball. the NHL being hurt by the AHL, or the NBA being hurt by the NBA G League despite those leagues sharing a schedule. Some within the NFL do prefer a spring league but I don't buy it because as someone that followed NFL Europe it became quite clear NFL teams had little to no interest in sending players to the league. They sent players at first but by the end the NFL had to give them roster exemptions just to get them to sign some guys to send over so that the NFL could claim were members of an NFL team even though they were really players 91-95 and had little chance of making an NFL roster. That said, I think they could start a spring league simply to make life even more difficult for the new XFL although I don't think they really consider the XFL a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: If the players aren't good enough to earn a draft selection by competing at the college level then they don't deserve a spot on an NFL roster to begin with. That assumes the draft process is close to an exact science, which it isn't. Plenty of players didn't get the opportunity to get drafted, and still had quality careers. Some are in the HOF. Thinking guys like Tony Romo or Priest Holmes didn't deserve a roster spot doesn't really make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: That assumes the draft process is close to an exact science, which it isn't. Plenty of players didn't get the opportunity to get drafted, and still had quality careers. Some are in the HOF. Thinking guys like Tony Romo or Priest Holmes didn't deserve a roster spot doesn't really make sense. Those players are few and far between vs the field though. It's the Kurt Warner argument all over again. These types of rare and unfounded talent have the regional combines at their disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: If the players aren't good enough to earn a draft selection by competing at the college level then they don't deserve a spot on an NFL roster to begin with. You've got to be kidding me with this garbage statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Those players are few and far between vs the field though. It's the Kurt Warner argument all over again. These types of rare and unfounded talent have the regional combines at their disposal. They ain't that rare. I am willing to bet your favorite team has at least 2 starters that weren't drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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