Offseason Rumor Thread

[Superman(DH23)]

4 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Checks every box since the season ended? LOL. I would hope that any player ever could look good in shorts and a cutoff, throwing off of a scripted workout routine, etc. His on field stuff is where he struggles:

*Accuracy: Horrific

*Processing (he's SLOW)

*Production: Mediocre at best against low tier competition

First off the accuracy is not horrific. He has some footwork issues that leads to some inaccurrate passes (still 57% with absolutely nobody to throw to)  We have seen throughout this draft process some of those footwork issues really getting cleaned up.

As for processing what he is seeing, hes not slow at all.  That evidence is in his wonderlic score which was the best of the top qbs and is purely a measurement of the ability to process information quickly.  Where the processing questions come from is that he doesnt throw with anticipation on tape.  Heres a newsflash for you, the vast majority of top prospects dont.  In college you dont have to throw early, especially if you have Allens arm.  We here all the time about the adjustment qbs have to make when they get to the nfl to how tight the windows are, thats what they are talking about, they are used to seeing the wr uncover before they throw.  Thats something that Allen has to work on, like most rookies. As someone said in the draft forum, if Allen threw with anticipation hes maybe the best qb prospect of all time. 

On the production issue, its fair to call out competition as long as you also call out how low tier the offensive talent was around Allen.

So what boxes has he checked.  Weve already talked about the footwork improvements in just a few months.  So what has he done?

He went to the senior bowl, got better every practice and then played fantastic in the game.  He went to the combine and separated himself from the other 2 top qbs both athletically and in arm talent.  He also did VERY well on the wonderlic.  He has blown teams away both in the interview process and on the boards.  In my 20 years of seriously watching and evaluating prospects i cant remember ever being so impressed with a qb prospect in the draft season leading up to the draft.  Usually these guys become a victim of overanalysis bc we spend so much time talking about them.  Allen has improved his stock every single day since the end of the season.  

[MWil23]

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

First off the accuracy is not horrific.

LOL. Whatever you say. It's BAD.

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

He has some footwork issues that leads to some inaccurrate passes (still 57% with absolutely nobody to throw to) 

You know who else had no one to throw to? Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Joe Flacco, Big Ben. I won't hear that lousy/lazy argument.

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

We have seen throughout this draft process some of those footwork issues really getting cleaned up.

In shorts and T-Shirts, and scripted workouts, without blitzing linebackers, rolling out at less than full speed.

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

As for processing what he is seeing, hes not slow at all. 

Dan Orlovsky's film breakdown would disagree with you. He can't go through progressions for anything or read his outlets. He's not even close.

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

That evidence is in his wonderlic score which was the best of the top qbs and is purely a measurement of the ability to process information quickly.  Where the processing questions come from is that he doesnt throw with anticipation on tape. 

And when the ability to compute math and logic problems comes into play on tape and he's able to do long division or differentiate various shapes and patterns instead of reading a defense and going through progressions, I may actually care.

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

Heres a newsflash for you, the vast majority of top prospects dont.  In college you dont have to throw early, especially if you have Allens arm. 

His lousy production would say differently.

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

We here all the time about the adjustment qbs have to make when they get to the nfl to how tight the windows are, thats what they are talking about, they are used to seeing the wr uncover before they throw.  Thats something that Allen has to work on, like most rookies. As someone said in the draft forum, if Allen threw with anticipation hes maybe the best qb prospect of all time. 

IF IF IF IF IF...that's what I hear a LOT about from you and other Allen lovers.

"IF he learns how to throw with anticipation."

"IF he can read a defense."

"IF he can throw more accurately"

"IF he can clean up his footwork"

"IF he can put it all together"

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

On the production issue, its fair to call out competition as long as you also call out how low tier the offensive talent was around Allen.

See: Wentz, Flacco, Big Ben

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

So what boxes has he checked.  Weve already talked about the footwork improvements in just a few months.  So what has he done?

He can throw the ball 80 yards.

Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

He went to the senior bowl, got better every practice and then played fantastic in the game.  He went to the combine and separated himself from the other 2 top qbs both athletically and in arm talent.  He also did VERY well on the wonderlic.  He has blown teams away both in the interview process and on the boards.  In my 20 years of seriously watching and evaluating prospects i cant remember ever being so impressed with a qb prospect in the draft season leading up to the draft.  Usually these guys become a victim of overanalysis bc we spend so much time talking about them.  Allen has improved his stock every single day since the end of the season.  

We will agree to disagree and move on. We don't agree on much of anything there old timer. Have fun living in 1983.

[Superman(DH23)]

5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

LOL. Whatever you say. It's BAD.

You know who else had no one to throw to? Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Joe Flacco, Big Ben. I won't hear that lousy/lazy argument.

In shorts and T-Shirts, and scripted workouts, without blitzing linebackers, rolling out at less than full speed.

Dan Orlovsky's film breakdown would disagree with you. He can't go through progressions for anything or read his outlets. He's not even close.

And when the ability to compute math and logic problems comes into play on tape and he's able to do long division or differentiate various shapes and patterns instead of reading a defense and going through progressions, I may actually care.

His lousy production would say differently.

IF IF IF IF IF...that's what I hear a LOT about from you and other Allen lovers.

"IF he learns how to throw with anticipation."

"IF he can read a defense."

"IF he can throw more accurately"

"IF he can clean up his footwork"

"IF he can put it all together"

See: Wentz, Flacco, Big Ben

He can throw the ball 80 yards.

We will agree to disagree and move on. We don't agree on much of anything there old timer. Have fun living in 1983.

You bring up Carson Wentz, which is interesting of course bc of the physical comparisons and they played in the same offense.  They also had remarkably similar production.  Im guessing you really didnt look much into that before you used him as an example.

 

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

You bring up Carson Wentz, which is interesting of course bc of the physical comparisons and they played in the same offense.  They also had remarkably similar production.  Im guessing you really didnt look much into that before you used him as an example.

 

LOL, what a JOKE!

Wentz: 64.1% completion percentage, 45TD/14 INT, 8.4 YPA, 153 Rating

Allen: 56.2% completion percentage, 44 TD/21 INT, 7.8 YPA, 138 Rating

Seriously quit trolling, it's beyond embarrassing at this point.

[cddolphin]

1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

As for processing what he is seeing, hes not slow at all.  That evidence is in his wonderlic score which was the best of the top qbs and is purely a measurement of the ability to process information quickly.

That's not at all what the wonderlic measures (it's basically a general intelligence test), and there is no evidence that high wonderlic = better performing QB. Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 48. Kaepernick scored a 37 (same as Josh Allen, Romo, Luck). Guys like Brees (28), Wilson (28), and Roethlisberger (25) all scored significantly lower than Allen and have won mutiple SBs between them.

Quote

Weve already talked about the footwork improvements in just a few months.

In live games? Under pressure? Against defenses in pads and helmets? Even if the improvements have been 'massive'.. is that enough to disregard hundreds of snaps of game tape?

[Soko]

Wait wait, so Allen’s footwork is “fixed” based on what he did in drills + he scored on the wonderlic = he’s A-OK as a prospect now? 

[Forge]

Quote

Teams around the NFL no longer believe the New York Giants are going to be trading wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. before or during the upcoming draft, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

 

[bzane]

25 minutes ago, Forge said:

Teams around the NFL no longer believe the New York Giants are going to be trading wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. before or during the upcoming draft, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Allah is merciful!!!

As a Giants' fan, I have read far too many exciting trade proposals (mostly from Browns' fans) whereby the Giants trade Odell Beckham to the Browns for Corey Coleman (swoon!), Barkevious Mingo, Justin Gilbert, and the Browns' sixth-round pick, which turns into a 7th if the Browns win less than eleven games and/or re-sign Hue Jackson. 

Let us hope that sanity prevails, and the Giants hang onto their only threat on offense.

Although, I'll admit, the manly chest of Corey Coleman can be a mighty inducement!

[Kip Smithers]

So now Schefter is saying that Odell isn’t getting traded essentially. Funny.

[Kip Smithers]

29 minutes ago, Forge said:

 

Funny.

[showtime]

[cddolphin]

Just now, showtime said:

bye bye baby

[BleedTheClock]

3 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

Because as we get closer to the draft anytime you hear “reports are the Browns will take Darnold or Barkley 1st overall”, don’t believe it. It doesn’t benefit nobody to say that unless they want to trade down and it’s highly unlikely the Browns trade out of the 1st overall spot.

What? Doing a bit of day drinking or something? I can't understand what you're trying to say here. 

[showtime]

1 minute ago, cddolphin said:

bye bye baby

Maybe.  I just thought that picture was cool because it might be over.  That pic just has some symbolism to it.

[BleedTheClock]

8 minutes ago, bzane said:

Allah is merciful!!!

As a Giants' fan, I have read far too many exciting trade proposals (mostly from Browns' fans) whereby the Giants trade Odell Beckham to the Browns for Corey Coleman (swoon!), Barkevious Mingo, Justin Gilbert, and the Browns' sixth-round pick, which turns into a 7th if the Browns win less than eleven games and/or re-sign Hue Jackson. 

Let us hope that sanity prevails, and the Giants hang onto their only threat on offense.

Although, I'll admit, the manly chest of Corey Coleman can be a mighty inducement!

Any Browns fan that would offer you that obviously has no idea what they're talking about.

 

I'm not willing to part with that 6th round pick. I mean, I understand we have to give up a little to get Beckham, but this is a freaking robbery on your end. And the asking price is 2 1st round picks, not 3. You're not getting 3 1st rounders for Beckham. (Coleman 2015) (Gilbert 2014) (Mingo 2013)