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Offseason Trade Targets

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3 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Hopefully there's a chance they'd trade Cooks straight up for Peters.

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1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

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Cooks is the equivalent to a first or second round pick from last year...

sooo

 

You saying you wouldn't rather see Peters and Gilmore teamed together tearing down quarterbacks this season?

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3 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Cooks is the equivalent to a first or second round pick from last year...

sooo

 

You saying you wouldn't rather see Peters and Gilmore teamed together tearing down quarterbacks this season?

I wouldn't. I like Eric Rowe enough that I dont think an upgrade across from Gilmore is that necessary, especially if they can upgrade the front 7. 

 

On the flip side of that you have a receiving corp that will feature a returning Edelman whose a major question mark coming off that injury at his age, 2 guys that seem to always miss at least 2 games a year who are also aging in Hogan and Dola (if he resigns), Dorsett who was less than replacement level this year, and a Gronk who is considering retirement and also cant be counted on for a full 16. Cooks is essential. 

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24 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

I wouldn't. I like Eric Rowe enough that I dont think an upgrade across from Gilmore is that necessary, especially if they can upgrade the front 7. 

 

On the flip side of that you have a receiving corp that will feature a returning Edelman whose a major question mark coming off that injury at his age, 2 guys that seem to always miss at least 2 games a year who are also aging in Hogan and Dola (if he resigns), Dorsett who was less than replacement level this year, and a Gronk who is considering retirement and also cant be counted on for a full 16. Cooks is essential. 

Peters is a big enough upgrade over Rowe in my mind, (serviceable as Rowe may be overall), that yeah, the move isn't necessary, but should the Chiefs agree to that trade? It will impact the defense tremendously and elevate the team in my opinion where Cooks' production can be replaced through scheming and signing a couple of skill position players. I agree with you about the offensive exodus potentially happening sooner than later. Dola may leave or retire, and it's ashame because he has been one of my favorite receivers on the Patriots. However his value hadn't really risen until last season to where it is now because he was frequently missing games or just underutilized. Edelman won't be the same. I am not expect him to be anyways. Gronkowski may retire, but there are plenty of free agent tight ends such as Tyler Eifert, Trey Burton, and Jimmy Graham to name a few who can fill in nicely if Jacob Hollister doesn't progress or the rookies don't provide any answers. Malcolm Mitchell can't be counted on as a dependable solution because of his injury history. Chris Hogan is the most reliable guy should Cooks be traded or something. Cooks is valuable, but not that much of an upgrade over some mid-tier free agent receivers or an early round receiver.

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7 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

Cooks is the equivalent to a first or second round pick from last year...

sooo

 

You saying you wouldn't rather see Peters and Gilmore teamed together tearing down quarterbacks this season?

Why is Cooks still getting trashed on this forum? Makes zero sense. He just put up a 65/1,082/7 TD slash line his first year in the system. We just gave up a first round pick for him and he's still only 24 years old.

Peters was trash this year. The front 7 needs the upgrade. Way more than the secondary does.

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8 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

Cooks is valuable, but not that much of an upgrade over some mid-tier free agent receivers or an early round receiver.

This baffles me. 

Rk   Tm Age Pos G GS Tgt Rec Ctch% Yds
Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Fmb
1 Antonio Brown*+ PIT 29 WR 14 14 163 101 62.0% 1533 15.2 9 57 7.2 109.5 4
2 Julio Jones* ATL 28 WR 16 16 148 88 59.5% 1444 16.4 3 53 5.5 90.3 0
3 Keenan Allen* LAC 25 WR 16 15 159 102 64.2% 1393 13.7 6 51 6.4 87.1 1
4 DeAndre Hopkins*+ HOU 25 WR 15 15 174 96 55.2% 1378 14.4 13 72 6.4 91.9 1
5 Adam Thielen* MIN 27 WR 16 16 142 91 64.1% 1276 14.0 4 65 5.7 79.8 3
6 Michael Thomas* NOR 24 WR 16 14 149 104 69.8% 1245 12.0 5 43 6.5 77.8 0
7 Tyreek Hill* KAN 23 WR 15 13 105 75 71.4% 1183 15.8 7 79 5.0 78.9 2
8 Larry Fitzgerald* ARI 34 WR 16 16 161 109 67.7% 1156 10.6 6 37 6.8 72.3 1
9 Marvin Jones DET 27 WR 16 16 107 61 57.0% 1101 18.0 9 58 3.8 68.8 0
10 Rob Gronkowski*+ NWE 28 TE 14 14 105 69 65.7% 1084 15.7 8 53 4.9 77.4 1
11 Brandin Cooks NWE 24 WR 16 15 114 65 57.0% 1082 16.6 7 64 4.1 67.6 0
12 A.J. Green* CIN 29 WR 16 16 143 75 52.4% 1078 14.4 8 77 4.7 67.4 2
13 Travis Kelce* KAN 28 TE 15 15 122 83 68.0% 1038 12.5 8 44 5.5 69.2 0
14 Golden Tate DET 29 WR 16 12 120 92 76.7% 1003 10.9 5 71 5.8 62.7 1
15 Mike Evans TAM 24 WR 15 15 136 71 52.2% 1001 14.1 5 42 4.7 66.7 1

That is some rarified air to be living in in 2017. Not to mention it was his first year in NE where WR's tend to struggle getting acclimated and WR's who have had success elsewhere have trouble connecting with Brady. His value is much higher than you are giving him credit for. 

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1 hour ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

Why is Cooks still getting trashed on this forum? Makes zero sense. He just put up a 65/1,082/7 TD slash line his first year in the system. We just gave up a first round pick for him and he's still only 24 years old.

Peters was trash this year. The front 7 needs the upgrade. Way more than the secondary does.

Cooks isn't getting trashed, just evaluated for what his trade value would be. A first round pick is what he was traded for last year. How is saying he is worth a first or second trashing him? Truthfully he is cannot run after the catch well. He is young enough that there is hope he might improve at that. But for now let's call it lime it is, he is a deept threat that tends to let ball come to him but is otherwise a good route runner, particularly along the sideline, who can be relied on. He is only 24 or 25 years old so his future is bright. My preference however is to get better on defense with this team because the offense has produced with lesser talented guys than Cooks before.

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1 hour ago, DoleINGout said:

Cooks isn't getting trashed, just evaluated for what his trade value would be. A first round pick is what he was traded for last year. How is saying he is worth a first or second trashing him? Truthfully he is cannot run after the catch well. He is young enough that there is hope he might improve at that. But for now let's call it lime it is, he is a deept threat that tends to let ball come to him but is otherwise a good route runner, particularly along the sideline, who can be relied on. He is only 24 or 25 years old so his future is bright. My preference however is to get better on defense with this team because the offense has produced with lesser talented guys than Cooks before.

You just said he's not an upgrade over a mid-tier FA WR or an early round WR. He's definitely better than that. Find me WR's who's production have mirrored Cooks' over the last 3 seasons. I'll save you the time, there aren't many.

Why would you trade him for Peters (never going to happen) and then spend another early pick on WR? Makes no sense. Just sign a corner or spend an early pick one.

Have you seen the Patriots track record with drafting early WR's? You think the Patriots could spend the 31st overall pick on a WR and he'd step right in and put up those numbers? That's baffling. WR's are extremely hard to scout and typically don't produce year 1 at the NFL level. Unless it's a top 10 pick or something.

Trading Cooks makes literally zero sense. Edelman is going to be another year older and is coming off a torn ACL. Malcolm Mitchell's knees are trash. Dola has to be on a pitch count or you can't count on him to stay healthy. Gronk is rumored to be considering retirement. Why in the heck would the Patriots move Cooks?

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2 hours ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

You just said he's not an upgrade over a mid-tier FA WR or an early round WR. He's definitely better than that. Find me WR's who's production have mirrored Cooks' over the last 3 seasons. I'll save you the time, there aren't many.

Why would you trade him for Peters (never going to happen) and then spend another early pick on WR? Makes no sense. Just sign a corner or spend an early pick one.

Have you seen the Patriots track record with drafting early WR's? You think the Patriots could spend the 31st overall pick on a WR and he'd step right in and put up those numbers? That's baffling. WR's are extremely hard to scout and typically don't produce year 1 at the NFL level. Unless it's a top 10 pick or something.

Trading Cooks makes literally zero sense. Edelman is going to be another year older and is coming off a torn ACL. Malcolm Mitchell's knees are trash. Dola has to be on a pitch count or you can't count on him to stay healthy. Gronk is rumored to be considering retirement. Why in the heck would the Patriots move Cooks?

You may not like my languge in describing Cooks but I did say he is worth trading for a first or second round pick which you all but ignored in your post. Obviously it doesn't make sense to trade Vooks away and then draft another receiver with the high pick but in my opinion it didn't make sense last year when they originally traded for Cooks. That's what this all comes back to for me. It was a dumb investment and yes, now you're invested in a guy who I'm not trashing for anything besides his jumpball and YAC. Now he's concussed on top of it. The upside is huge with Cooks but any mid tier reciever could put up a minimum of 800 yards and 5 touchdowns in 16 games with the Patriots offense. So, looking at extending Cooks for $14 million a year or whatever he'll cost versus letting him walk and adding a new piece to the offense, be it LeVeon Bell or a difference maker at another position, I'm more interested in that.

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On 2/17/2018 at 1:12 AM, ashnathan said:

I still lol at 69 receptions every damn time I see it

It’s almost like he planned it that way 

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5 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

any mid tier reciever could put up a minimum of 800 yards and 5 touchdowns in 16 games with the Patriots offense. 

Majority of mid-tier FAs wouldn’t even see the field because they’d have no trust with Brady and no grasp of the playbook. 

The fact that Cooks came in and accomplished what he accomplished as a young, first year receiver on this team was pretty special. He might not be Tyreek Hill in speed or Antonio Brown as a receiver, but he was a damn good player for the team in 2017. Saying a guy like Albert Wilson can come in here and duplicate his production or usefulness is flat out wrong.

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Quote

any mid tier reciever could put up a minimum of 800 yards and 5 touchdowns in 16 games with the Patriots offense. 

Albert Wilson is not a "mid-tier receiver". I wasn't even aware of the man's existence until you mentioned him. You know what happens when you surround Brady with garbage receivers?

This:

And this:

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2013/09/four-catches-fourteen-targets-putting-kenbrell-thompkins-week-1-numbers-in-context.html

Oh, and here's another:
 

 

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Could you imagine If NE didn’t trade for cooks last offseason? The WR corps would be a disaster. The number 1 guy opening night  2017 would be career jag chris Hogan and he essentially didn’t play the  second half of the season. So you were really looking into having Philip Dorset as your number one outside guy. I’d just triple team gronk every play and let everyone else beat me. 

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23 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

You may not like my languge in describing Cooks but I did say he is worth trading for a first or second round pick which you all but ignored in your post. Obviously it doesn't make sense to trade Vooks away and then draft another receiver with the high pick but in my opinion it didn't make sense last year when they originally traded for Cooks. That's what this all comes back to for me. It was a dumb investment and yes, now you're invested in a guy who I'm not trashing for anything besides his jumpball and YAC. Now he's concussed on top of it. The upside is huge with Cooks but any mid tier reciever could put up a minimum of 800 yards and 5 touchdowns in 16 games with the Patriots offense. So, looking at extending Cooks for $14 million a year or whatever he'll cost versus letting him walk and adding a new piece to the offense, be it LeVeon Bell or a difference maker at another position, I'm more interested in that.

So if they didn't trade for Cooks last season, how would you feel about the receiving corps going into this season? I wouldn't feel to great about it. Edelman would be a year older and has a injury history. Same for Dola, who's also a FA. Mitchell has an injury history. Gronk has a well documented injury history. 

He wasn't acquired just for this previous season. It was pretty obvious a future move because of 1) the capital used to acquire him 2) exercising his option and 3) long term planning by Belichick, ie; aging Edelman and Dola, injury prone Gronk and Mitchell, etc. He's 24 years old....the same age as Malcolm Mitchell.

Any mid-tier receiver could put up a minimum of 800 yards and 5 TD's with the Patriots offense? That's a pretty bold statement. I don't see how because he's not good after the catch, we're acting like he's hardly better than a mid-tier receiver. I think your issue with Cooks stems from not completely understanding why he was acquired in the first place. He wasn't brought in to be another slot WR, he was brought in because this offense has struggled when our WR's can't separate against press man coverage and have displayed an inability to stretch the field. Cooks brought exactly that season, put up great numbers and while they don't go on the stat sheet, he drew a decent amount of PI's.

I think your opinion on Cooks would be a whole lot different if we saw this offense with a healthy Edelman last season. I fail to see how investing a ton of money in a head-case running back with a ton of tread on his tires a better use of cap space and resources.

Edited by 1ForTheThumb

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