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Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds?


AlNFL19

Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds?  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. Who's the better prospect?

    • Roquan Smith, ILB, Georgia
      33
    • Tremaine Edmunds, ILB, Virginia Tech
      29


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3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

These two are not going to play the same position. Tremaine Edmunds is a MLB/SLB prospect. Roquan Smith is a WLB prospect only.

That being said, I have Roquan Smith with the higher grade. He isn't as versatile as Edmunds CAN become, but he's got a very high floor and does what a WLB should be doing at an elite level. He knows his weaknesses and molds his game to mask those deficiencies. Edmunds is overrated to me. I've seen him do literally nothing in games this year where I watched the entire 4 quarters. Although I do admit I need to watch more tape of him, as I stat checked the 3 games of his I saw and those were by far his worse games statistically. In fact, those were the only 3 games where his stat line didn't look very good. Going off of what I saw live, I was not impressed.

 

Side note: I have Rashaan Evans ahead of both of these guys right now. Slightly ahead of Roquan and pretty significantly ahead of Edmunds.

 

Leighton Vander-Esch is impressive to me, but I don't like that he didn't play in a phone booth much. He's a perfect spread offense weapon because of his size and speed, but he looks thin and I rarely see him taking on fullbacks or murking guys downhill. It doesn't mean he can't do it, but it's a bit of a projection moving forward.

So you think Evans could go top-15?

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1 hour ago, DirtyDez said:

So you think Evans could go top-15?

He could. I wouldn't take him in the top 15 though. I wouldn't take any of these linebackers that early. It's possible all three do though, as it seems like I'm lower on them than most.

Evans is the most well-rounded and has the best chance to play all over any front. I picture him playing ILB in a 3-4 and causing havoc as the 5th blitzer. That would be his ideal role, but he's good enough to play MIKE, WILL, or SAM. He's not very big, but unlike Roquan, he's better dealing with guards and looks more explosive. He plays downhill better than Edmunds or Smith, but I'm a little worried about his size, not necessarily his willingness.

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Hard to say who is better between those two, depends on what you want.  Edmunds is more versatile and could play a variety of positions, could play OLB in a 3/4 or OLB in a 4/3 or ILB in a 3/4.  Kid is long and super athletic, Smith is more compact and powerful but has really come on and played as good as any linebacker in the nation arguably this past year.

 

The people that say Roquan Smith cannot play downhill are nuts, the guy is a missile out there and is very hard to handle, arrives to the ball with a lot of power and force.  Could say he is arguably the most aggressive tackling linebacker in the draft and that explosion is what makes him a very interesting prospect.  So if one wants length and overall athletic ability in at linebacker go with Edmunds, if one wants more force and power from the ILB spot most likely in a 3/4 got with Smith.  

 

Smith did play with by far more talent on Georgia, was surrounded by a lot of linebacker talent and a talented DL.  Edmunds on the other hand was not, did not play with super great linebackers and the DL is not that elite, solid but not elite.  Heck Georgia I had before the year having the most deep linebacker core in the nation.  That does matter, who one plays with in terms of production.  Just ask Alabama ILBs, everyone was in love with Foster last year, I said Evans was going to do similar things and arguably did this past season even with a few injuries here and there.  Edmunds did a ton for that VT defense in the front seven, was by far the most impactful defender there almost every single game, that says something.

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2 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

The people that say Roquan Smith cannot play downhill are nuts, the guy is a missile out there and is very hard to handle, arrives to the ball with a lot of power and force.  Could say he is arguably the most aggressive tackling linebacker in the draft and that explosion is what makes him a very interesting prospect.  So if one wants length and overall athletic ability in at linebacker go with Edmunds, if one wants more force and power from the ILB spot most likely in a 3/4 got with Smith.  

What tapes show Roquan taking hard attack steps downhill and making plays in the A/B gaps? Every time I see him make a play, it's when he's scraped across the LOS scrum and made the cleanup tackle. That's not a knock on him--it's what his role is in that defense and he does it at an A+ level. But he's not a thumper by any stretch of the imagination. He'll get murdered in the NFL if you draft him to be a downhill A-B gap player.

Roquan is a great tackler. Tackles with violence and efficiency. But I'm not questioning his tackling; I'm questioning his size and his ability to get off blocks. He's pretty conservative when it comes to aggression in getting to the ball carrier. He shows flashes that he can shoot a gap and make the play, but 99% of the time he slowly scrapes over the top and makes the sure-fire tackle after a 2-4 yard gain. Most DC's will be happy with that. I just wish he was a little more aggressive, but I understand why he isn't. Aggressive players often get met with a 330+ offensive lineman walling them down. Moreso than the other two top linebackers, he's more prone to being obliterated by these kinds of plays and thus, doesn't take these chances.

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15 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

What tapes show Roquan taking hard attack steps downhill and making plays in the A/B gaps? Every time I see him make a play, it's when he's scraped across the LOS scrum and made the cleanup tackle. That's not a knock on him--it's what his role is in that defense and he does it at an A+ level. But he's not a thumper by any stretch of the imagination. He'll get murdered in the NFL if you draft him to be a downhill A-B gap player.

Roquan is a great tackler. Tackles with violence and efficiency. But I'm not questioning his tackling; I'm questioning his size and his ability to get off blocks. He's pretty conservative when it comes to aggression in getting to the ball carrier. He shows flashes that he can shoot a gap and make the play, but 99% of the time he slowly scrapes over the top and makes the sure-fire tackle after a 2-4 yard gain. Most DC's will be happy with that. I just wish he was a little more aggressive, but I understand why he isn't. Aggressive players often get met with a 330+ offensive lineman walling them down. Moreso than the other two top linebackers, he's more prone to being obliterated by these kinds of plays and thus, doesn't take these chances.

The SEC championship game and the National Championship game he made a ton of plays in the A and B gap either on blitzes or just during a regular play.  He is not a thumper?  If he is not then who is exactly in this draft?  He is a great hitter and the best hitting linebacker I saw all year, especially in this draft class.  So  you call a player that tackles with 'violence' but is not a 'thumper', how is that the case?  Again it seems to be just semantics.

 

Roquan Smith can hit, is he Ray Lewis, yeah no but in this draft he is the hardest hitter linebacker out there.  Does he have some work to do, sure, but he brings a lot of strength tackling and good solid athletic ability.  He is very fast reacting and closing on the ball carrier, not sure in my eyes with that.  Ideally I feel he would fit best in a 3/4 ILB spot, given a little more freedom to roam around.

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7 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

These two are not going to play the same position. Tremaine Edmunds is a MLB/SLB prospect. Roquan Smith is a WLB prospect only.

That being said, I have Roquan Smith with the higher grade. He isn't as versatile as Edmunds CAN become, but he's got a very high floor and does what a WLB should be doing at an elite level. He knows his weaknesses and molds his game to mask those deficiencies. Edmunds is overrated to me. I've seen him do literally nothing in games this year where I watched the entire 4 quarters. Although I do admit I need to watch more tape of him, as I stat checked the 3 games of his I saw and those were by far his worse games statistically. In fact, those were the only 3 games where his stat line didn't look very good. Going off of what I saw live, I was not impressed.

 

Side note: I have Rashaan Evans ahead of both of these guys right now. Slightly ahead of Roquan and pretty significantly ahead of Edmunds.

 

Leighton Vander-Esch is impressive to me, but I don't like that he didn't play in a phone booth much. He's a perfect spread offense weapon because of his size and speed, but he looks thin and I rarely see him taking on fullbacks or murking guys downhill. It doesn't mean he can't do it, but it's a bit of a projection moving forward.



That depends on who Smith gets drafted to actually because in the Falcons scheme he would easily be our MLB.  Deion Jones would be a better fit as our WLB because he is quicker and is probably one of the best coverage LB's in the nfl right now.   He has done well at MLB being a pro bowler in his 2nd year but as a WLB he would be even better.   Smith who is probably a more sure tackler than Jones would play MLB for us more than likely but either way a tandem of Jones and Smith at WLB and MLB would be ridiculous and he will be long gone before we pick lol.   WLB and MLB in the Falcons scheme aren't all that different though honestly but the WLB prob. does do a bit more coverage overall.

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18 minutes ago, Shylo3716 said:

If Roquan Smith was 6’3” or 6’4” we would be talking about him as being a top-3 pick in the draft.

Unlikely in this quarterback class and the fact that off the ball linebackers are very rarely drafted that high. Possible, but doubtful. Willis wasn't a top 10 pick. Kuechly went 9th. Hawk was 6th or 5th, which is very high.

It's the same thing with guards, which is why you're not seeing nelson mocked in the top 3 this year, despite pretty universal acclaim for him as a prospect

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2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

So  you call a player that tackles with 'violence' but is not a 'thumper', how is that the case?

Hitting ability and being a thumper are not the same thing. At least my definition of them.

Thumpers are big strong linebackers that work downhill, shuck guards and tackles off of them violently, and murder fullbacks on isolation concepts. They are bruisers...basically fullbacks of the defense. This isn't Roquan Smith and I'm willing to bet you can't find any tape to prove he's this kind of player. He's perfectly fine at what he does...but calling him a thumper is foolish if our definitions are the same.

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1 minute ago, BleedTheClock said:

Hitting ability and being a thumper are not the same thing. At least my definition of them.

Thumpers are big strong linebackers that work downhill, shuck guards and tackles off of them violently, and murder fullbacks on isolation concepts. They are bruisers...basically fullbacks of the defense. This isn't Roquan Smith and I'm willing to bet you can't find any tape to prove he's this kind of player. He's perfectly fine at what he does...but calling him a thumper is foolish if our definitions are the same.

Again you want to play semantics then go ahead...  I would define a thumping linebacker as one who can bring power when he arrives to the ball, not how well he knocks guys back or attacks the fullback, usually that is best when defensive lineman do the 'thumping' by your definition and the linebacker gets to the ball.  I believe Smith is better at getting off or around blocks and finding the ball than you think.  

 

 

8 minutes ago, Forge said:

Unlikely in this quarterback class and the fact that off the ball linebackers are very rarely drafted that high. Willis wasn't even a top 10 pick. Kuechly went 9th. 

It's the same thing with guards, which is why you're not seeing nelson mocked in the top 3 this year, despite pretty universal acclaim for him as a prospect

Agree, doubt that would happen.  A lot of better overall ILB prospects than Smith have not been drafted all that high.  Heck Reuben Foster this past year was barely a 1st round pick, sure there are reasons for that but still.  Alec Ogletree was also barely a 1st rounder and James Laurinaitis feel into the 2nd round.  He is no where near Patrick Willis as an overall prospect and same with CJ Mosely.  Sean Lee was freaking great in college and was a 2nd round pick.  Brandon Spikes was a crazy productive college player for four years and was a late 2nd round pick and the list can go on and on.  This day and age honestly only way a linebacker is drafted that high is if he can get to the passer and is basically a 3/4 OLB pass rusher.  

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

  I believe Smith is better at getting off or around blocks and finding the ball than you think.  

I'm open to changing my mind. Point out to me the films I need to watch that can confirm this. I watched the SEC and national championship games and he didn't thump. He was amazing when unblocked regardless of where the ball went, but he didn't smash faces in gaps. I've honestly never seen him engage a blocker, get rid of the blocker, and make a tackle. He's very good at avoiding those blocks with pacing and speed, but he doesn't shed blocks.

To me, a thumper isn't someone that runs around blockers.

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1 hour ago, Forge said:

Unlikely in this quarterback class and the fact that off the ball linebackers are very rarely drafted that high. Possible, but doubtful. Willis wasn't a top 10 pick. Kuechly went 9th. Hawk was 6th or 5th, which is very high.

It's the same thing with guards, which is why you're not seeing nelson mocked in the top 3 this year, despite pretty universal acclaim for him as a prospect

It’s really no different than projecting Saquon Barkley as the #1 pick, knowing that RBs do not go that high.

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1 hour ago, Shylo3716 said:

It’s really no different than projecting Saquon Barkley as the #1 pick, knowing that RBs do not go that high.

Not really comparable. Rbs actually have a much better history of going high. Last 20 years in the top 5:  Fournette and Zeke #4, Trent Richardson#3, Darren McFadden #4, LT #5, Bush, Ronnie Brown were both #2s. Cedric Benson #4. Cadillac Williams (3 rbs in top 5 that year). Edge. Curtis Enis. Ricky Williams. Jamal Lewis.

Just outside the top 5, you had AP, Thomas Jones (both 7), a few others. 

Who was the last pure non pass rushing, off the ball linebacker to go top 5? Aaron Curry? There have been 3 I think in the last 20 years- Curry, hawk, and lavar arrington. Some at the back end of the top 10 (kuechly 9, McClain 8, Keith rivers and Ernie Sims 9, urlacher 9). I may be forgetting some, but that's the majority

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On 2/17/2018 at 5:30 PM, AlNFL19 said:

I haven't scouted either player yet, but I get the sense that they are the two top ILBs in this year's draft. There are a lot of people who prefer Edmunds, and a lot who prefer Smith. Who do you think is the better prospect, and why?

The top ILB is actually Leighton Vander Esch.  Freak athlete with size like Tremaine Edmunds but with better instincts.  Roquan Smith is undersized and not impressive athletically.  His hype is largely because he played at a big school and was the best player on a good college defense.

In terms of pro ceiling, its Leighton Vander Esch then Tremaine Edmunds.

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