03/10/18 Update: 3-Round Mock Draft (with Trades & Free Agency)

[DoleINGout]

18 minutes ago, NVRamsFan said:

Jackson, Vea and Payne all available for the Rams such a hard decision. My gut says Payne but we could use any of them.

Thanks for tbhe feedback. Vea and Payne aren't bad picks either, but Joshua Jackson has really ascended and become the best cornerback prospect in my opinion. His ceiling is the highest of the three and the Rams could use a third cornerback to contend for the Super Bowl.

[Acgott]

Way too much dancing for the Giants. It makes no sense to trade back twice especially the trade with Buffalo.

[DoleINGout]

2 minutes ago, Acgott said:

Way too much dancing for the Giants. It makes no sense to trade back twice especially the trade with Buffalo.

Well I figured two firsts and a third (added in) from Buffalo gets the Giants the influx of talent they need across the roster. There's uncertainty about so many veterans returning that this new regime will want to add as much as it can through the draft, (only two trades, it is not unheard of for one team). Brandon Marshall, JPP, Olivier Vernon, DRC, Eli Apple, even Jenkins I once heard months ago as being cap casualties. Vereen, Darkwa, Pugh are free agents this year and coming up next is London Collins. Obviously most of this stuff will not happen in 2018, but a few moves will be made to shed salaries. Bigger picture though, team in recent history acquire picks with multiple trades down the board. Patriots, Rams, Browns, Eagles, and Cowboys are just some examples.

[Acgott]

53 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Well I figured two firsts and a third (added in) from Buffalo gets the Giants the influx of talent they need across the roster. There's uncertainty about so many veterans returning that this new regime will want to add as much as it can through the draft, (only two trades, it is not unheard of for one team). Brandon Marshall, JPP, Olivier Vernon, DRC, Eli Apple, even Jenkins I once heard months ago as being cap casualties. Vereen, Darkwa, Pugh are free agents this year and coming up next is London Collins. Obviously most of this stuff will not happen in 2018, but a few moves will be made to shed salaries. Bigger picture though, team in recent history acquire picks with multiple trades down the board. Patriots, Rams, Browns, Eagles, and Cowboys are just some examples.

Its not good value for the Giants. They are selling slightly even to a loss on the picks. It doesn't make sense to do it. The Giants will be going from in theory one All-Pro to maybe 2 average/good starters and a rotational player or 2?

JPP and Vernon can't go anywhere because of their cap for the next 2 years. Jenkins can't go until at least next year.

[Mastercheddaar]

Not mad about Barkley at #1 but Allen at #4 when Darnold is still on the boards? Also McFadden at #33 is too early for him when you see Oliver, Carlton, Alex, etc at CB available AND Price at C. Price would be BPA by a mile at #33. Also I like the trade an extra 3rd for basically a small move down and a mid rounder. But then you have us taking St Brown over Kirk? Kirk is arguably a top 3 WR in this draft whereas St Brown is arguably a 3rd/4th rounder. 

Not bad... though. Nothing would have made me chunk my controller at the TV. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[DoleINGout]

25 minutes ago, Acgott said:

Its not good value for the Giants. They are selling slightly even to a loss on the picks. It doesn't make sense to do it. The Giants will be going from in theory one All-Pro to maybe 2 average/good starters and a rotational player or 2?

JPP and Vernon can't go anywhere because of their cap for the next 2 years. Jenkins can't go until at least next year.

I think in theory you may be correct in your assessment of the player values individually. However, I'm discussing the collective value of adding multiple players by the current administration. The sum of the parts versus the parts themselves is the ideology that doomed the Giants in 2017. Jerry Reese and Co. thought that by adding the one or two "all pro" players the team would be better. In reality, the Giants won their last two Super Bowls by doing the opposite and strategically building up the way I projected them to in my mock. The value of one or both trades might be equal for both sides on the surface but I think it helps the Giants franchise beyond just the projected individual player values. I agree to disagree in philosphy on this one.

[NVRamsFan]

1 hour ago, DoleINGout said:

Thanks for tbhe feedback. Vea and Payne aren't bad picks either, but Joshua Jackson has really ascended and become the best cornerback prospect in my opinion. His ceiling is the highest of the three and the Rams could use a third cornerback to contend for the Super Bowl.

Resigning Joyner and NRC with Peters then drafting Jackson would be an amazing secondary. But we gave up 4.7 ypc and lots of bog runs. A NT or ILB like Evans would help our biggest weakness. It’s going to be an interesting first round for us.

[Acgott]

15 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

I think in theory you may be correct in your assessment of the player values individually. However, I'm discussing the collective value of adding multiple players by the current administration. The sum of the parts versus the parts themselves is the ideology that doomed the Giants in 2017. Jerry Reese and Co. thought that by adding the one or two "all pro" players the team would be better. In reality, the Giants won their last two Super Bowls by doing the opposite and strategically building up the way I projected them to in my mock. The value of one or both trades might be equal for both sides on the surface but I think it helps the Giants franchise beyond just the projected individual player values. I agree to disagree in philosphy on this one.

I have no issue with trading down, but you are underselling their draft pick a lot. If the best they can do is even money on the #2 they have failed.

[DoleINGout]

8 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said:

Not mad about Barkley at #1 but Allen at #4 when Darnold is still on the boards? Also McFadden at #33 is too early for him when you see Oliver, Carlton, Alex, etc at CB available AND Price at C. Price would be BPA by a mile at #33. Also I like the trade an extra 3rd for basically a small move down and a mid rounder. But then you have us taking St Brown over Kirk? Kirk is arguably a top 3 WR in this draft whereas St Brown is arguably a 3rd/4th rounder. 

Not bad... though. Nothing would have made me chunk my controller at the TV. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

Sam Darnold skipping throwing drills at the combine is less endearing to the NFL organizations. Josh Allen isn't hiding behind his pro day like Darnold will. Allen also comes with less fanfare/lower expectations than Darnold while being arguably more talented and going to college home games in the cooler climate of Wyoming similar to Cleveland as opposed to Darnold's alma mater in sunny southern California. Just little traits here and there that I think would make Cleveland look into Allen over Darnold. Also, I think the arm talent of Josh Allen is more enamoring to head coach Hue Jackson who has worked with a variety of skill levels between his time as a Bengals coordinator and currently with the Browns.

 

Malcolm Butler in free agency goes to the Browns and Tarvarus McFadden adds great block shedding ability and size to matchup against big receivers. McFadden is a little slower than Oliver but the comparison ends when it comes to toughness. Oliver hasn't proven to be a smart tackler, occasionally seeming to wonder or opt to corral long enough for another teammate to tackle instead. I think having McFadden and Butler as the Browns two corners is more valuable than drafting Billy Price to compete with capable starters JC Tretter or Joel Bitonio.

 

Christian Kirk is a max effort guy with ability clearly and some versatility to play special teams. However as a matchup threat, possession receiver and redzone threat, Equanimeous Saint Brown is one of the better receiver I've seen in a while. Savvy if not polished route runner, good speed, long stride, long and athletic, St. Brown can plug into any receiver position of a formation at any part of the field and separate. For a potential home run hit of a draft selection, I think the Browns will be wise to go with Brown even if Kirk is a similarly strong option. It comes down to fit when I look at the two and Hue Jackson has a history of target these savvy, longer receivers which doesn't fit the description for Kirk as much as St. Brown.

[DoleINGout]

14 minutes ago, NVRamsFan said:

Resigning Joyner and NRC with Peters then drafting Jackson would be an amazing secondary. But we gave up 4.7 ypc and lots of bog runs. A NT or ILB like Evans would help our biggest weakness. It’s going to be an interesting first round for us.

True about the run defense, but Aaron Donald missed a chunk of the season last year holding out if I remember correctly. NRC I have signing with the Packers making Jackson an even more compelling pick.

[NVRamsFan]

Just now, DoleINGout said:

True about the run defense, but Aaron Donald missed a chunk of the season last year holding out if I remember correctly. NRC I have signing with the Packers making Jackson an even more compelling pick.

Just the first game for AD. Teams ran right up the middle on us.

[DoleINGout]

10 minutes ago, NVRamsFan said:

Just the first game for AD. Teams ran right up the middle on us.

It takes a while for the defense as a unit to optimize their potential and by missing all of camp and preseason, Donald's absence affected the Rams longer than just one game in my opinion.

 

For what it's worth, Da'Ron Payne isn't a stout run defender alone. One-on-one, Payne can carry his weight fine but anymore than that and he is washed out of plays like most players. Vea is a little better than Payne against the run but again nothing special. RJ McIntosh and Harrison Phillips are the two defensive tackles you'd want more for run defense.

[NVRamsFan]

9 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

It takes a while for the defense as a unit to optimize their potential and by missing all of camp and preseason, Donald's absence affected the Rams longer than just one game in my opinion.

 

For what it's worth, Da'Ron Payne isn't a stout run defender alone. One-on-one, Payne can carry his weight fine but anymore than that and he is washed out of plays like most players. Vea is a little better than Payne against the run but again nothing special. RJ McIntosh and Harrison Phillips are the two defensive tackles you'd want more for run defense.

Those two along with Settle and PJ Hill. Each playing alongside Donald and Brockers though would face few if any double teams.

[DoleINGout]

18 minutes ago, Acgott said:

I have no issue with trading down, but you are underselling their draft pick a lot. If the best they can do is even money on the #2 they have failed.

Taking their roster needs into consideration and then adding the potential of Derrius Guice as just one of their picks who could be a multiple time Pro Bowler, I think the Giants are successful for finding their starter plus others from 2018 and one more in 2019.

[DoleINGout]

DE:

M. Wilkerson, CLE