SDotNova Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 20 hours ago, JetsandI said: About taking G in top 5, Redskins did it with the 5th overall selection and he is playing RG. That would be worse than having Nelson at LG at 6th. Personally, I advise against taking G in top 15. I can't help with it. However, none of skill players or blue chip prospects have stepped up into top 5 consideration then Jets have no choice but to take G. That is why I pray more prospects show up at the combine and pro days. It is really not worth arguing whether or not taking G in top 10 when your team is low in talent. Jets' last 2 draft class must step up and help team move forward among this year's draft class. PFF has done some analytics on positional value. Guard and RB just don't present the value even if the player is an all-world type of player. However, one of their analyst still said he would draft Barkley and Nelson high in this draft (likely because the options are slim). But another said they wouldn't draft either position in the first round. The final analytics are still pending. Can't wait for that info to come out. Their logic: RB - This position is heavily depending on other positions. For example, if your QB sucks, teams will stack 8 in the box which will limit your RB. Then there's the issue of OL. A RB needs holes to run through. They used Gurley as an example. He exploded this year now that the surrounding cast is good. G - Most of their analytics point to protecting the passer as the most important part of an OL. So, OT are much more valuable. It's just an odd draft. The best players aside from QB are a FS/Slot Corner, G and RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, SDotNova said: PFF has done some analytics on positional value. Guard and RB just don't present the value even if the player is an all-world type of player. However, one of their analyst still said he would draft Barkley and Nelson high in this draft (likely because the options are slim). But another said they wouldn't draft either position in the first round. The final analytics are still pending. Can't wait for that info to come out. Their logic: RB - This position is heavily depending on other positions. For example, if your QB sucks, teams will stack 8 in the box which will limit your RB. Then there's the issue of OL. A RB needs holes to run through. They used Gurley as an example. He exploded this year now that the surrounding cast is good. G - Most of their analytics point to protecting the passer as the most important part of an OL. So, OT are much more valuable. It's just an odd draft. The best players aside from QB are a FS/Slot Corner, G and RB. That sums up my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 31 minutes ago, SDotNova said: PFF has done some analytics on positional value. Guard and RB just don't present the value even if the player is an all-world type of player. However, one of their analyst still said he would draft Barkley and Nelson high in this draft (likely because the options are slim). But another said they wouldn't draft either position in the first round. The final analytics are still pending. Can't wait for that info to come out. Their logic: RB - This position is heavily depending on other positions. For example, if your QB sucks, teams will stack 8 in the box which will limit your RB. Then there's the issue of OL. A RB needs holes to run through. They used Gurley as an example. He exploded this year now that the surrounding cast is good. G - Most of their analytics point to protecting the passer as the most important part of an OL. So, OT are much more valuable. It's just an odd draft. The best players aside from QB are a FS/Slot Corner, G and RB. Generally agree with what your saying. But I do think Barkley is a star as well as Nelson. If we get Cousins... Barkley is who I want if available. I absolutely think there’s value (especially in Round 2) at RB. I just think Barkley is a sure thing IMO. If we get Cousins my big board is something like this. 1. Barkley 2. Chubb 3. Nelson 4. Ridley 5. Edmunds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.O Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I like Nwosu now. Not as good as OO but definitely a player I wouldn't mind adding to our Edge group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, Dr.O said: I like Nwosu now. Not as good as OO but definitely a player I wouldn't mind adding to our Edge group. Very similar players. I could see us liking Nwosu more bc if his leadership skills like Adams and Maye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Nwosu is stronger in coverage. If anyone cares about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.O Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: Very similar players. I could see us liking Nwosu more bc if his leadership skills like Adams and Maye. Nwosu seems to win with his athleticism a lot more, OO understands how to set OTs up which is rare coming from College players. OO honestly might go in the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Didn’t know Barkley grew up as/is a Jets fan. Similar to LF last year, he’s the player I want if QB is not a need. They both feel special. Shame it’s unlikely he will fall to us. Barkley, Chubb, Nelson in that order if no QB right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 5 hours ago, GangGreen420 said: Didn’t know Barkley grew up as/is a Jets fan. Similar to LF last year, he’s the player I want if QB is not a need. They both feel special. Shame it’s unlikely he will fall to us. Barkley, Chubb, Nelson in that order if no QB right now. Yup those are my top 3 if we sign Cousins. Barkley will be a top RB in this league immediately imo. I wish he’d fall to us. And while I love him as a player. Trading up for a RB just doesn’t make sense that early in the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 A big factor in positional value is the second contracts handed out for CB's, pass rushers, QB's etc. You don't save much money for drafting RB's top 5 becuase they immediately are paid like top 10 players at the position. If they aren't top 5 players in year 1 like LF failed to do or CMC then you really are paying top 5-10 money at the position for not top 5 production. Zeke and Gurley lived up to the hype but still you are paying a premium for them so at the very least they are earning their contract. If you can get top 10 production out of a CB/passrusher/LT etc and be paying them pennies compared to what the top players at their position are earning you are getting a huge boost in value right there and can spend money elsewhere to improve your team. That can't be ignored when assessing value to the top draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 30 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said: A big factor in positional value is the second contracts handed out for CB's, pass rushers, QB's etc. You don't save much money for drafting RB's top 5 becuase they immediately are paid like top 10 players at the position. If they aren't top 5 players in year 1 like LF failed to do or CMC then you really are paying top 5-10 money at the position for not top 5 production. Zeke and Gurley lived up to the hype but still you are paying a premium for them so at the very least they are earning their contract. If you can get top 10 production out of a CB/passrusher/LT etc and be paying them pennies compared to what the top players at their position are earning you are getting a huge boost in value right there and can spend money elsewhere to improve your team. That can't be ignored when assessing value to the top draft picks. Generally I agree. But RB is one of the easiest positions to see if they will be a successful nfl player. Meaning the draft risk if very minimal. I mean I think I’ve heard a person or 2 doubt Barkley (which I don’t see at all, I see a star). So while he will be a top paid player at his position. I think he is immediately one of the best players at his position as soon as he signs his contract. That’s just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: Generally I agree. But RB is one of the easiest positions to see if they will be a successful nfl player. Meaning the draft risk if very minimal. I mean I think I’ve heard a person or 2 doubt Barkley (which I don’t see at all, I see a star). So while he will be a top paid player at his position. I think he is immediately one of the best players at his position as soon as he signs his contract. That’s just my opinion. While less risk yes no guarantee. You could have said that about Fournette last year but LF was not worth that draft position last year IMO. He was pretty average overall and yet again couldn't play a full season. You could say he was a sure thing but was not a good pick based on his rookie season and being paid like a top 10 player. JAC was just as good or better with their other back in the lineup when LF was injured. I think Barkley will be really good but you also need a good OL or you could have a Gurley situation like 2 years ago where he just isn't performing. RB's need help at QB and OL to perform at their best. I don't want to pay a rookie top 5-10 money when you could get a great player possibly at OLB/CB/LT/QB and have great value for 5 years. It's like paying a rookie CB/OLB/LT 10M+ as a rookie in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said: While less risk yes no guarantee. You could have said that about Fournette last year but LF was not worth that draft position last year IMO. He was pretty average overall and yet again couldn't play a full season. You could say he was a sure thing but was not a good pick based on his rookie season and being paid like a top 10 player. JAC was just as good or better with their other back in the lineup when LF was injured. I think Barkley will be really good but you also need a good OL or you could have a Gurley situation like 2 years ago where he just isn't performing. RB's need help at QB and OL to perform at their best. I don't want to pay a rookie top 5-10 money when you could get a great player possibly at OLB/CB/LT/QB and have great value for 5 years. It's like paying a rookie CB/OLB/LT 10M+ as a rookie in comparison. It’s not like paying CB/OLB/LT 10+ at all. Bc it isn’t that cap hit. Yes you’re paying him high for his position, but he is still the same cap hit for 5 years as if he was at any other position. The thing that should make a difference in a draft pick is how good a player is and are they going to succeed at the nfl level. Not where are they paid immediately at their position. I just can’t get on board with that logic. You’re using RB as an example that they need help from the QB and OLine. Well CB needs help from S and pass rush. Pass rush needs help from the Dline and secondary. Every position plays off each other. So I don’t agree with that logic either. What I do think is that yes we do need to beef up the OLine. But that has nothing to do with Barkley. We need to do that regardless. But if we can address OLine in FA and maybe even in the draft than that surely makes the odds of a guy like Barkley being successful. I’ll also address LF. The guy has top talent. But he is an injury risk. When he played he absolutely was worth his draft spot. Barkley doesn’t have injury issues. Therefor he’s actually an even less risk than that if LF. He’s along the Elliott lines if anything. Except I’d say Barkley catches the ball better and is faster. Barkley is a very deceptive big back. Look at his legs next time you watch him. They are tree trunks. I think I read somewhere they he squats more than anyone else at PSU including lineman. Crazy lower body strength. These are things that I think make him not a risk at 6 and almost a lock to be successful in the nfl. I just doubt he’s there at 6 bc of how good he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rampantjet Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Bobby816 said: Generally I agree. But RB is one of the easiest positions to see if they will be a successful nfl player. Meaning the draft risk if very minimal. I mean I think I’ve heard a person or 2 doubt Barkley (which I don’t see at all, I see a star). So while he will be a top paid player at his position. I think he is immediately one of the best players at his position as soon as he signs his contract. That’s just my opinion. I think he is a boom/bust guy. I don't mean in terms of career, I mean from play to play. There aren't many guys with a more impressive HL package than Barkley (Lamar is the only one really). But Barkley has the largest disparity between his HL's and his regular game tape of anyone. I think he would be an absolute home run pick if he could still pick up 5 yards in a cloud of dust on his non HL plays, but he doesn't. He stops and tries to turn everything into a home run, and fails a ton. For the run first team that we want to be that is just a drive killer. He has top 10 talent for sure, but not top 10 play in play out results on the field. I would be pretty disappointed if we took him at 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoLewis57 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, rampantjet said: I think he is a boom/bust guy. I don't mean in terms of career, I mean from play to play. There aren't many guys with a more impressive HL package than Barkley (Lamar is the only one really). But Barkley has the largest disparity between his HL's and his regular game tape of anyone. I think he would be an absolute home run pick if he could still pick up 5 yards in a cloud of dust on his non HL plays, but he doesn't. He stops and tries to turn everything into a home run, and fails a ton. For the run first team that we want to be that is just a drive killer. He has top 10 talent for sure, but not top 10 play in play out results on the field. I would be pretty disappointed if we took him at 6. Even if we get Cousins you would be against him? That I don't understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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