BleedTheClock Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: He also thought Josh Dobbs was a special talent...so....umm...yeah. And Darnold a better prospect than Luck? The QB talent in this draft is so laughably overrated. I don't think Darnold is even close to Luck as a prospect. That being said, I also don't think this QB class is overrated. I think Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield will all be top 15 NFL QB's. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are talented enough to develop into top 15 QB's, but those two are more of a projection than the other three. Plus I love Kurt Benkert and think he ends up being a good starter for someone in the mold of a Kirk Cousins. Why don't you like this draft class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: He also thought Josh Dobbs was a special talent...so....umm...yeah. And Darnold a better prospect than Luck? The QB talent in this draft is so laughably overrated. NOT SAYING ITS BAD, but I see 2 first round caliber QBs, and while Darnold is one of them, I dont see how people say "he has everything". I think he has just as much chance of busting as he does becoming a franchise QB. Luck is and was overrated but to me still a significantly safer prospect than Darnold. I'm just saying that the comparison the original post made between the two I could see in certain traits but overall, no I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: I don't think Darnold is even close to Luck as a prospect. That being said, I also don't think this QB class is overrated. I think Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield will all be top 15 NFL QB's. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are talented enough to develop into top 15 QB's, but those two are more of a projection than the other three. Plus I love Kurt Benkert and think he ends up being a good starter for someone in the mold of a Kirk Cousins. Why don't you like this draft class? I think the draft class has really nice depth, especially at certain positions. I dont think it has much top end talent. I think there are 10-12 true first round talents, and then the next 50-60 players are pretty interchangeable between the mid 1st and 2nd round. In terms of the QBs.... Rosen - Really like him. Somewhat risky, but his upside is insane and I think he should, at worst, be a solid starter. Darnold - Has nice tools, but too inconsistent. With the right coaching and surrounding talent, I think he could be very good. I dont think he can go anywhere and be successful. Mayfield and Jackson - I like them, but dont love them. I would feel okay if my team drafted them in the last 1st or early 2nd....but neither should be top 15 picks iMO. With those guys...I understand why people like them, even if its more than I do. However.... Josh Allen - No idea what people see in him IN REGARDS TO BEING WORTH AN EARLY 1st ROUND PICK.....or first round pick.....or 2nd round pick....or 3rd rounder.... I mean, there have been numerous QBs over the years that I felt were supremely overhyped and it turned out to be right. Not that Ive been right about every QB Ive evaluated, but in regards to QBs who I felt were being SUPREMELY overrated, I have a pretty decent track record. Not saying this to thump my chest or convince anyone to trust me....just saying that I trust my evaluations in cases like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: Luck is and was overrated but to me still a significantly safer prospect than Darnold. I'm just saying that the comparison the original post made between the two I could see in certain traits but overall, no I disagree. Luck was supremely overrated his first 2-3 years, and has never reached the peaks I thought he would...perhaps in part due to injury and the coaching he has had. I thought he was easily an elite prospect, though. However, my comment wasnt meant to put Luck on a pedestal as much as it was just to say that I dont trust Darnold that much. If I was a QB needy team, would I draft him early? Perhaps, but Id try to find a decent veteran for him to sit behind for a year and build the team up more. Thats what I suggested if the Browns draft him Perhaps sign Sam Bradford for 2 years and draft Sam Darnold. For their sake, I hope they dont draft Darnold and then ask him to start immediately....even if they give him Saquon Barkley and another nice WR next to Gordon. I think he needs a year. I get why he came out, but from a development standpoint, he wouldve been much better off staying at USC another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said: I think the draft class has really nice depth, especially at certain positions. I dont think it has much top end talent. I think there are 10-12 true first round talents, and then the next 50-60 players are pretty interchangeable between the mid 1st and 2nd round. Agree. The top end of this draft class kind of sucks. I have 5 guys pegged as being elite talents (Barkley/Nelson/Ward/Vea/James) and after that, it's pretty much a wash between the 6th best player and the 36th best player. 1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said: In terms of the QBs.... Rosen - Really like him. Somewhat risky, but his upside is insane and I think he should, at worst, be a solid starter. He's my #1 QB right now. Mechanically perfect. Came from a scheme conducive to what the NFL will ask him to do. Not worried about his character at all. 1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said: Darnold - Has nice tools, but too inconsistent. With the right coaching and surrounding talent, I think he could be very good. I dont think he can go anywhere and be successful. The only thing that worries me are his fumbles. The interceptions don't bother me nearly as much as the fact that he holds onto the football too long. His OL did him ZERO favors, but he should realize this and compensate. I'm not worried about coaching scheme or talent that much. Sure those will help him, but ultimately a good QB shouldn't have to rely on others. I think Darnold's good enough to make average players and coaches look good. 1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said: Mayfield and Jackson - I like them, but dont love them. I would feel okay if my team drafted them in the last 1st or early 2nd....but neither should be top 15 picks iMO. Mayfield is so accurate. He has elite zip and very good arm strength. Makes full field reads. Eludes pressure with his eyes down the field. Can outrun edge defenders. Supreme competitor. My only concerns are his height and the fact that Oklahoma's play action left a lot of guys screaming wide open down the field. He's riskier because of that, but I'm not terrified of him. Lamar Jackson has the same concerns (weight, not height) and ontop of that, has some pretty glaring accuracy issues unlike Mayfield. Jackson's a much better athlete and will find his way onto the NFL field somewhere, but I don't know if I buy him as an NFL QB right now. Not in the top 15. 1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said: With those guys...I understand why people like them, even if its more than I do. However.... Josh Allen - No idea what people see in him IN REGARDS TO BEING WORTH AN EARLY 1st ROUND PICK.....or first round pick.....or 2nd round pick....or 3rd rounder.... I mean, there have been numerous QBs over the years that I felt were supremely overhyped and it turned out to be right. Not that Ive been right about every QB Ive evaluated, but in regards to QBs who I felt were being SUPREMELY overrated, I have a pretty decent track record. Not saying this to thump my chest or convince anyone to trust me....just saying that I trust my evaluations in cases like this. Yeah Josh Allen is overrated. I love a lot of what he does (big arm, size, tight-window throwing, improvisational skills, full-field reads, under center passer), but he's also incredibly inaccurate. Like Brandon Weeden inaccurate. He doesn't put the ball in harm's way that much with his inaccuracy and seems to know exactly where to miss (high/low/outside) based on the defender's location, but it is still maddening that he can't seem to get it to the WR's in stride or in rhythm. Shallow crossers and curl routes seem to give him issues for some reason, despite the fact that I could complete those concepts. I don't get it. But then he'll rifle a pass 60 yards down the seam on a rope off of 1 foot between 2 defenders with perfect accuracy. It's crazy what kind of potential he has, but the short/intermediate accuracy is head-scratching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: He also thought Josh Dobbs was a special talent...so....umm...yeah. And Darnold a better prospect than Luck? The QB talent in this draft is so laughably overrated. NOT SAYING ITS BAD, but I see 2 first round caliber QBs, and while Darnold is one of them, I dont see how people say "he has everything". I think he has just as much chance of busting as he does becoming a franchise QB. You guys will be playing catch-up pretty soon on this one. I expect a lot of blaming of Butch Jones (as was the case for Alvin Kamara this year) for why so many missed on him. Josh Dobbs is everything Deshaun Watson showed this past year in a more durable body with better intangibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPeezy55 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, VanS said: You guys will be playing catch-up pretty soon on this one. I expect a lot of blaming of Butch Jones (as was the case for Alvin Kamara this year) for why so many missed on him. Josh Dobbs is everything Deshaun Watson showed this past year in a more durable body with better intangibles. Man, I hope you're right but this statement is pretty outlandish right now. I'm wondering if you're saying the same thing about Dobbs if he went to Kentucky or Florida rather than Tennessee, who you seem to be all in on, prospect wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, JPeezy55 said: Man, I hope you're right but this statement is pretty outlandish right now. I'm wondering if you're saying the same thing about Dobbs if he went to Kentucky or Florida rather than Tennessee, who you seem to be all in on, prospect wise. Derek Barnett went to Tennessee, broke Reggie White's sack record, and was universally regarded as a first round prospect. I thought he was a 2nd-3rd round prospect who would be a solid starter in the league but nothing special. I don't just elevate a player simply because he went to the school located in my home state. For the record, you should know that most Tennessee Vols fans don't even consider me a Tennessee fan because I only started rooting for the Vols in 2014 after I saw Josh Dobbs play against Alabama. I'm from Tennessee so I do enjoy when the home state team succeeds. But I'm more a fan of players than teams. In the mid-2000s, I actually liked watching Texas because of Vince Young. In 2010 I was a fan of Auburn because of Cam Newton. And so on. I would say it was Dobbs that made me like Tennessee moreso than Tennessee causing me to like Dobbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: Luck was supremely overrated his first 2-3 years, and has never reached the peaks I thought he would...perhaps in part due to injury and the coaching he has had. I thought he was easily an elite prospect, though. However, my comment wasnt meant to put Luck on a pedestal as much as it was just to say that I dont trust Darnold that much. If I was a QB needy team, would I draft him early? Perhaps, but Id try to find a decent veteran for him to sit behind for a year and build the team up more. Thats what I suggested if the Browns draft him Perhaps sign Sam Bradford for 2 years and draft Sam Darnold. For their sake, I hope they dont draft Darnold and then ask him to start immediately....even if they give him Saquon Barkley and another nice WR next to Gordon. I think he needs a year. I get why he came out, but from a development standpoint, he wouldve been much better off staying at USC another year. Just to clarify, what I disagree with is the comparison of Darnold and Luck, not with your evaluations. I'm in the same boat as you regarding Darnold as a prospect. Probably shouldn't sit behind a veteran too long but not bad to have a plan in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananabucket Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTazeMeBro Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1. Bradley Chubb 2. Roquan Smith 3. Deshon Elliott 4. Anthony Miller 5. Ogbonnia Okoronkwo Non QBs. Not sure where to put Lamar Jackson. I don’t like him as much as a few other QBs the past few years. But he is a QB. Probably #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 4:05 PM, DontTazeMeBro said: 1. Bradley Chubb 2. Roquan Smith 3. Deshon Elliott 4. Anthony Miller 5. Ogbonnia Okoronkwo Non QBs. Not sure where to put Lamar Jackson. I don’t like him as much as a few other QBs the past few years. But he is a QB. Probably #1 Wow. This is a really weird list after picks 1 and 2 (which I still will debate you on). Deshon Elliot has the athleticism of a slug. Anthony Miller is in my top 25, but he's nowhere near a top 4 player in this class. Ahead of Saquon Barkley, Vita Vea, and Derwin James? Ouch. Ogbonnia Okoronkwo? The worst DE against the run in the universe? He's way too small to be an effective player outside of 3rd down. He's not in my top 50. Lamar Jackson is your QB#1? My goodness I know this is an opinion based thread, but I vehemently disagree with your list and would like to know what you watch on Saturdays instead of college football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlash Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Deshon Elliot has the athleticism of a slug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Quenton Nelson Saquon Barkley Denzel Ward Bradley Chubb Calvin Ridley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, Jlash said: But it's true. He's not going to test well enough to warrant 1st round buzz, letalone top 5 player buzz. If he ran a 4.3 at the combine he still wouldn't go in the top 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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