Mancunian Raven Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, DreamKid said: There's a cap on what he legitimately can get though. He's asking for 14 mill a year, it's not like teams with more money are going to keep driving that figure up until he gets 22 mill a year or something crazy. The Ravens are a better organization than all the teams you mentioned and have a long history of being a premier destination for FAs, WRs especially. Very rarely has there been a free agent we couldn't get if we really went at them. Are they? Missed the playoffs in four of the last five years, with a 50-50 win/loss ratio since winning the Super Bowl. A team that has a pretty pathetic reputation when it comes to offensive potency and developing WRs. A coaching team that is perceived as being in the last chance saloon, and one that doesn't have any premier names except the head coach, headed by a front office that has a GM who announced he's going to retire in a year, and a QB who has the image of fluctuating between bad and decent on a regular basis. Add to that, a team that simply cannot offer the sort of money others can. Right now, if Landry was offered $8million a year by the Ravens and $9million a year by the 49ers, were would he go? Smart money is not on the Ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Mancunian Raven said: Are they? Missed the playoffs in four of the last five years, with a 50-50 win/loss ratio since winning the Super Bowl. A team that has a pretty pathetic reputation when it comes to offensive potency and developing WRs. A coaching team that is perceived as being in the last chance saloon, and one that doesn't have any premier names except the head coach, headed by a front office that has a GM who announced he's going to retire in a year, and a QB who has the image of fluctuating between bad and decent on a regular basis. Add to that, a team that simply cannot offer the sort of money others can. Right now, if Landry was offered $8million a year by the Ravens and $9million a year by the 49ers, were would he go? Smart money is not on the Ravens. You don't believe we're a superior football organization to the Colts, Jets, Bear, 49ers, Titans, Browns and GD Redskins? Even their fans would think you're crazy. Why would Landry care about our ability to develop WRs? None of the other receivers we brought in did. We have multiple great coaches, Joe D'Alessandris, Jerry Rosburg, Greg Roman, Randy Brown. Ozzie isn't retiring, he's switching positions within the organization and handing over the reigns to one of the most sought after figures in the entire league Eric Decosta. As I said Landry's salary will largely be capped, he can only get so much. From there it will come down to who he wants to play for. We could absolutely get the space together to sign him, it's the ramifications of doing so, and if he'd be worth it that's being debated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancunian Raven Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 I believe that the Ravens organisation, and its fans, should stop assuming that this team is a big draw for Free Agents (particularly on offense) who have their pick of a dozen teams. Better than the Browns, Colts and Bears now? Yes, but not better enough that a good off-season for any of those teams couldn't see them overhaul us. Simply saying, 'ah, they suck compared to us' doesn't hold water. Just a year ago, many would have sneered at the Jaguars, and look where they are now. And back office stability doesn't always translate to success on the field. It can just as easily translate to stagnation on the field, as we've seen with this team over the last few years. The Ravens are about as middle-of-the-road as it gets in the NFL, since they won the Super Bowl. Landry is either looking for as much money as he can get, which means he's unlikely to pick the Ravens, or to be on a team that's on the rise so he's in a great situation to win, which means he's unlikely to pick the Ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I think your assessments are way off base, so no need to debate them. It will come down to Landry's choice and you're taking us out of the running to an unrealistic degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I agree to a point here with @Mancunian Raven. The days of this franchise being a top-tier franchise in the NFL are long gone, and as sad as it may be, we are not better than the Titans, Bears, or Redskins anymore. I love the thought of Jarvis Landry coming to Baltimore, but ultimately what is the draw here, on offense? To play with Joe Flacco and the 31st ranked offense, which has had one of the worst passing offenses every season since 2013? If it were me, I wouldn't come here. This isn't a place where receivers come to flourish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 You guys fundamentally aren't understanding the concept of organizational/franchise strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, DreamKid said: You guys fundamentally aren't understanding the concept of organizational/franchise strength. Ravens as a franchise has had 1 losing season in 10 consecutive years, same owner for 15+ seasons, same GM for almost 20 and is heir and planned inherent taking over. Same HC for 10 years and only 3 before him. Despite some "bad" seasons since a super bowl victory, this is a top tier franchise to play for. Now, where they do have a point, are we are franchise going up or going down? There are questions surrounding the HC's future after a couple of disappointing seasons, there are questions about the franchise quarterback who have struggled with injuries and performance. This could lead to players looking towards franchises which could be on the rise with a new quarterback, more FA aquisitions and new exciting coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, Danand said: This could lead to players looking towards franchises which could be on the rise with a new quarterback, more FA aquisitions and new exciting coaches. Absolutely it could. It doesn't mean the Ravens aren't a top tier franchise though, and that concept is lost on them. There's a massive difference between saying our team just might not be the ideal situation for a player and saying we're a lesser organization. The two aren't tied together. If the Browns magically got Aaron Rodgers, it doesn't mean they then have a better organization than us or the Patriots etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancunian Raven Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, DreamKid said: Absolutely it could. It doesn't mean the Ravens aren't a top tier franchise though, and that concept is lost on them. There's a massive difference between saying our team just might not be the ideal situation for a player and saying we're a lesser organization. The two aren't tied together. If the Browns magically got Aaron Rodgers, it doesn't mean they then have a better organization than us or the Patriots etc. No, but getting Rodgers, hiring a good coach and a good GM and building on their multitude of draft picks would set them on their way. If the Browns finally get their QB, along with Saquon Barkley, and fit some more great pieces into their team, and they go from worst to first in the AFC North, are the Ravens still a better organisation? Sure. If they win it again the next year? Maybe not so much. The year after that? Oh hell, are we the new Browns? The NFL is not a static sport, and resting on your laurels like you, and the Ravens organisation, are doing is a surefire way of finding yourself at the bottom of the pile before too long. And generally, FA players will be the first to see it. Why do you think it took almost no time for the 49ers to start being seen as a hot destination, after a 6-10 season? Because people can see when a team is up-and-coming. You just assume that Landry would want to come to the Ravens, with little reason to think he'll see them as a more attractive option than a lot of other teams, some of whom will be vying for him. I'm saying that the Ravens are not more attractive monetarily, and the idea of them being more attractive from a situational point of view is questionable, at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Danand said: Ravens as a franchise has had 1 losing season in 10 consecutive years, same owner for 15+ seasons, same GM for almost 20 and is heir and planned inherent taking over. Same HC for 10 years and only 3 before him. Despite some "bad" seasons since a super bowl victory, this is a top tier franchise to play for. Now, where they do have a point, are we are franchise going up or going down? There are questions surrounding the HC's future after a couple of disappointing seasons, there are questions about the franchise quarterback who have struggled with injuries and performance. This could lead to players looking towards franchises which could be on the rise with a new quarterback, more FA aquisitions and new exciting coaches. "A couple"? We've made the playoffs 1 out of the last 5 seasons. Yeah, we've had the same HC/Owner/GM for 15+ seasons, but there comes a point (that we've hit) where that turns from a strength to stagnation. What makes this team and this organization, especially on offense, a "top tier franchise to play for"? I would love to hear it. On defense, I absolutely agree because that's our history and we have a very strong track record there. Offensively? Nah. Switching posters... Quote It doesn't mean the Ravens aren't a top tier franchise though, and that concept is lost on them. What about this franchise right now makes us "top tier" other than the fact we've had the same coach and owner for 10 seasons (HINT: Are the Bengals a top tier franchise right now?)? It's time to actually wake up and face the reality that we're, at best, a mediocre franchise right now that threw itself into obscurity after the Superbowl win. And when it comes to suitable destinations for a player, a receiver, you have to look at this team and look at what we're offering. Do we have a great QB? Nope, arguably bottom 5. Is he going to get paid like he wants? Nope, our cap situation sucks. Is he going to compete for a championship? Probably not, we've made the playoffs 1 of the last 5 seasons. Is he going to get a lot of media exposure and help his image across the league? Doubtful, as we're in the bottom 1/3rd of media market teams. So what exactly would entice him to come to Baltimore? It's not the paycheck. It's not the QB. It's not the winning history recently. What would it be? What would draw him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, Mancunian Raven said: I'm saying that the Ravens are not more attractive monetarily, and the idea of them being more attractive from a situational point of view is questionable, at best. I'm aware. As I've stated multiple times, the amount of money he can reasonably get is capped. It's a matter of having that amount and we could free it up. I don't know why you keep ignoring this fact and rehashing. You don't think Landry would view the team as a desirable destination? Fine. Who cares. Your comments about the organization were the issue. 8 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: What about this franchise right now makes us "top tier" If a franchise made the playoffs every single year and won the Super Bowl too that would make them perfect. A great franchise is one that constantly outperforms their peers in multiple faucets of the sport, which we do. That it hasn't translated to the W/L ratio we want recently is unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, DreamKid said: A great franchise is one that constantly outperforms their peers in multiple faucets of the sport, which we do. That it hasn't translated to the W/L ratio we want recently is unfortunate. what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: what Lets solve this quickly. I believe we're a strong franchise that excels in many areas, you don't, done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, DreamKid said: Lets solve this quickly. I believe we're a strong franchise that excels in many areas, you don't, done. Or, to make this easier, you believe we excel in areas that don't translate to wins. Also, none of those areas are related to the offense or WR position. All of this is relevant in terms of asking "Why would Jarvis Landry want to play here?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Darth Pees said: Or, to make this easier, you believe we excel in areas that don't translate to wins. Also, none of those areas are related to the offense or WR position. All of this is relevant in terms of asking "Why would Jarvis Landry want to play here?" We excel in multiple areas that translate to wins. Did acquiring Alex Collins not lead to more wins? How about our coaching of the backup OL pieces? Our improved run game scheme? IMO Jarvis Landry would want to play here because we are a great franchise and a team on the rise/hunt. Our identity gels with his, our QB is a proven playoff commodity, he'd be the centerpiece of our receiving core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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