AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 32 minutes ago, DreamKid said: We excel in multiple areas that translate to wins. Did acquiring Alex Collins not lead to more wins? How about our coaching of the backup OL pieces? Our improved run game scheme? IMO Jarvis Landry would want to play here because we are a great franchise and a team on the rise/hunt. Our identity gels with his, our QB is a proven playoff commodity, he'd be the centerpiece of our receiving core. ... Quote we are a great franchise Not in the last 5 years. Quote a team on the rise/hunt On the rise? Quite the opposite, actually. In the hunt? Sure. Quote Our identity gels with his Not sure I get what you mean by this. What is our identity and how does it gel with his? Also, what is his identity? Quote our QB is a proven playoff commodity Yeah that's one way to describe Joe Flacco lol Quote he'd be the centerpiece of our receiving core. He'd be the centerpice of all but maybe 8 receiving cores, so that's not really something we can uniquely offer him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Alright well now that this is it's own thread, the answer is pretty damn simple. If you have literally a .500 record over the past 5 years, and have made the playoffs one time in that span - you're not a superior franchise any longer - you're average, which is exactly what we are. It's not the worst, but we're no longer a top-10, or even top-5 franchise like we once were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: Alright well now that this is it's own thread, the answer is pretty damn simple. If you have literally a .500 record over the past 5 years, and have made the playoffs one time in that span - you're not a superior franchise any longer - you're average, which is exactly what we are. It's not the worst, but we're no longer a top-10, or even top-5 franchise like we once were. Wow. So technically if all the talent we stockpiled during those years plays well, and injuries don't ravage us, we could go from an average to great franchise in one year? Just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, DreamKid said: Wow. So technically if all the talent we stockpiled during those years plays well, and injuries don't ravage us, we could go from an average to great franchise in one year? Just like that. Yeah and I guess technically if the Browns hit on all of their 1st round picks they'd also be a great franchise. But they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Darth Pees said: Alright well now that this is it's own thread, the answer is pretty damn simple. If you have literally a .500 record over the past 5 years, and have made the playoffs one time in that span - you're not a superior franchise any longer - you're average, which is exactly what we are. It's not the worst, but we're no longer a top-10, or even top-5 franchise like we once were. So what other teams would you have in the top 10? Because teams that make the playoffs but don’t ultimately win the Super Bowl are irrelevant to the discussion. They haven’t proven that they can win championships. Ive yet to see a fan base settle for playoff appearances. Which franchise is considered more successful, one that goes to the playoffs 10/10 times in a 10 year span OR the one that goes 5/10 times and wins 1 Super Bowl in a years time? So if you answer with “scenario a” then it justifies your point, but you’re not a fan of winning just consistency. If you answer with scenario b than all of your logic about the sky falling and how horrible the Ravens franchise is in comparison to others is horribly flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said: So what other teams would you have in the top 10? As of the past 5 years: Seahawks, Eagles, Vikings, Falcons, Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Kansas City, Carolina, and Denver have all been more successful. Then you have teams like Dallas, Green Bay, Arizona, Cinci, Detroit, and New Orleans in there as well. This team hasn't proven it can win championships either, mind you. Hell, since we lost Ray and Ed, we've barely proven we can make the playoffs, and that was with Gary Kubiak. If we're weighing what a better franchise is over a 10 year run, then yes we're successful, but I've been pretty clearly talking about the past 5 years because what happened before those 5 years is irrelevant to what's happened after them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I choose to point especially to the 2012 and 2014 season, because that fits my narrative and that is what EVERYONE should base their opinion on, and if we talk those two years, we are a top NFL franchise. Only wins matter, stuff like fluctuating seasons with up and down performances is irrelevant, players being unhappy with their team and very outspoken about it doesn't matter either. Teams which has recent success leaps to be the new great franchises etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Danand said: I choose to point especially to the 2012 and 2014 season, because that fits my narrative and that is what EVERYONE should base their opinion on, and if we talk those two years, we are a top NFL franchise. Only wins matter, stuff like fluctuating seasons with up and down performances is irrelevant, players being unhappy with their team and very outspoken about it doesn't matter either. Teams which has recent success leaps to be the new great franchises etc. Don't forget we should discredit every single season where we had an injury. No other teams suffer injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensfanRD Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 This is a good franchise that used to be great and can be great again with the turn of a few pieces. OH! And because they have Joe Flacco Fight me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 13 hours ago, Darth Pees said: As of the past 5 years: Seahawks, Eagles, Vikings, Falcons, Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Kansas City, Carolina, and Denver have all been more successful. Then you have teams like Dallas, Green Bay, Arizona, Cinci, Detroit, and New Orleans in there as well. This team hasn't proven it can win championships either, mind you. Hell, since we lost Ray and Ed, we've barely proven we can make the playoffs, and that was with Gary Kubiak. If we're weighing what a better franchise is over a 10 year run, then yes we're successful, but I've been pretty clearly talking about the past 5 years because what happened before those 5 years is irrelevant to what's happened after them. What dynasty is ever mentioned as being defined in 5 year periods? They are defined in 10 year periods. So the fact that the narrative changes based off of your short sightedness isn’t something that lowers the Ravens as a franchise. Within the past 10 seasons the Ravens are 6/10 going to the playoffs. And have a playoff record of 10-5. Have gone to the divisional round in EVERY (6) appearance. Have gone to the AFC Championship in half of all appearances. And have won a Super Bowl. The Ravens are clearly not a dynasty. However when a free agent comes to the team and asks to see their resume, they’re coming to the team to see what type of track record of success they can expect. In no way are they going to pick the Vikings or Chiefs over the Ravens as a successful franchise. Because the reality is that those other teams have gotten to the playoffs and haven’t done anything with it. Both the Vikings and Chiefs have just as many divisional round playoff appearances (combined) as the Ravens in the past 5 seasons that you limit your narrative to. What’s more, when the picture goes back just a little, we see that the recent history of the Ravens easily eclipses that of the Vikings and Chiefs. They had a playoff miracle and were then blown out the next round. We had a playoff miracle and used it as a launchpad to a Super Bowl win. The Carolina Panthers have gone to the playoffs 5/10. Have a playoff record of 3-7. Have went to the divisional round 4x. The NFC Championship game 1x. And have went to and lost in the Super Bowl. This resume is definitely not better than the Ravens. The Broncos are similar to the Panthers. 5/10 getting to playoffs. 5x divisionals. 2x Championship appearance. 2x Super Bowl appearance. 1 blowout loss. 1 SB win. The Falcons are on similar footing as the Ravens, their success in the last five seasons and having a bigger market could give them the edge with a similar resume. They are 6/10 in playoff appearances. 5 divisionals. 3 Championship appearances. 1 SB meltdown loss. So of your list only 6 teams would I list as more successful franchises. And it’s funny how you’re willing to knock the Ravens for their bounce back period from Lewis and Reed, yet you consider the Broncos more successful with an inferior record since Manning retired and an inferior playoff outlook. Your list changes the narrative constantly to suit your aim about the the sky is falling. Lastly, if you don’t believe the Ravens are a good franchise, have horrible coaching, they can’t secure any solid FAs because of that (crazy how they secured Rod Woodson, Steve McNair, Matt Birk, Derrick Mason, Willis McGahee, Dallas Clark, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Lee Evans (yuck), Steve Smith, etc.), and they also suck at drafting, perhaps the solution is to just stop being a fan. I mean, if the Ravens were a wife of yours and you told me that she had a horrible attitude, didn’t know how to handle traditional wifely duties, she didn’t work because she felt she was too good for it, nor was she hot... I would probably tell you to get a divorce. Just saying.??♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTazeMeBro Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I think we’re a good organization that hasn’t seemed to adapt to the salary cap explosion and rollover. Ravens player Ravens price and filling needs with cap casualties is outdated. We’ll know in about a month if they realize that And Jarvis Landry won’t be had for $9 million a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Quote The Ravens are clearly not a dynasty. However when a free agent comes to the team and asks to see their resume, they’re coming to the team to see what type of track record of success they can expect. In no way are they going to pick the Vikings or Chiefs over the Ravens as a successful franchise. Because the reality is that those other teams have gotten to the playoffs and haven’t done anything with it. You really think nobody's gonna pick the Vikings or the Chiefs over us right now? The actual reality is that both of those teams are division winners and have consistently made the playoffs, unlike us. You keep forgetting that part. We can't even make the playoffs recently, but somehow we're still superior to everyone else based off of what we did 5+ years ago with a completely different roster. Quote So of your list only 6 teams would I list as more successful franchises. And it’s funny how you’re willing to knock the Ravens for their bounce back period from Lewis and Reed, yet you consider the Broncos more successful with an inferior record since Manning retired and an inferior playoff outlook. Your list changes the narrative constantly to suit your aim about the the sky is falling. Again, I was very clear about talking about the past 5 years. You can't take my argument, twist it into yours, then say I was wrong lol that's not how things work. Those teams have all clearly been more successful in the past 5 years than us, even with teams like the Broncos going back to mediocrity without Manning right now. Quote Lastly, if you don’t believe the Ravens are a good franchise, have horrible coaching, they can’t secure any solid FAs because of that (crazy how they secured Rod Woodson, Steve McNair, Matt Birk, Derrick Mason, Willis McGahee, Dallas Clark, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Lee Evans (yuck), Steve Smith, etc.), and they also suck at drafting, perhaps the solution is to just stop being a fan. Oh great, now the "If you don't love this team and everything about it, just stop being a fan!" line comes out. You can criticize a team for not being the best and still be a fan of that team, just FYI. It's not a pre-requisite to be delusional. We're not a horrible franchise, we're just mediocre. Our record shows it, our drafting shows it, everything shows it. That's simply the truth of the situation right now. We're a franchise that seems to still be living in the early/mid 2000's model of how to do things, and has had trouble adapting to the modern NFL in terms of managing cap and players. We're not that far away from being a top level organization again, but the way things have gone the past 5 years, it's hard to see us reaching that level again with the current coaching staff makeup and roster, especially on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 2/19/2018 at 12:03 PM, Darth Pees said: and as sad as it may be, we are not better than the Titans, Bears, or Redskins anymore. I'd give 10/1 odds that our org gets us back to super bowl contender status sooner than any of these. If you are serious about that classification your opinion is way too far away to be engaged in depth. Oh great, now the "If you don't love this team and everything about it, just stop being a fan!" line comes out. Do you love anything about this team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: I'd give 10/1 odds that our org gets us back to super bowl contender status sooner than any of these. If you are serious about that classification your opinion is way too far away to be engaged in depth. Do you love anything about this team? In your opinion, what is "Superbowl Contender status"? Does it mean making the playoffs, or what? I love our kicker, and our Special Teams in general. I love Alex Collins and our running concepts. I love Joe Flacco when he actually plays well. I love Jimmy Smith when he's healthy. I love Eric Weddle, Suggs, Brandon Williams (especially his dancing), Matthew Judon, Crockett Gilmore and his 1,000,000 nicknames, Mike Wallace, and I love Vanny Woodhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 It is still a given that we are a playoff contender going in to every single season. We have been in or just outside (within one game result) of the playoffs in literally 90% of the Harbaugh/Flacco seasons. That is NOT mediocre. I believe DVOA and pythagorean wins are better predictors of future success than team record, and we were 7th and 8th respectively. This opinion has been well document on this forum well before this particular season; it's not me cherry picking stats that make them look good. Around 7-10 is exactly where I would put this team in terms of overall strength. So... superior to most of the league, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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