Za'Darius Smith: Did he have a good season or not?

[Danand]

Zardarius Smith played really well this year. He created a lot of disruption which helped other players get sacks and pressure. 

That we didn't find ways to use bowser and Williams was a coaching issue, and shouldn't be a knock on Smith

[DreamKid]

10 minutes ago, Danand said:

Zardarius Smith played really well this year. He created a lot of disruption which helped other players get sacks and pressure. 

That we didn't find ways to use bowser and Williams was a coaching issue, and shouldn't be a knock on Smith

Also he was used inside a bunch. The problem isn't ZDS. It isn't even Judon. Matt is a good player, he's very explosive and fast in a straight line or a basic arc, even has a little bend to his game. He can blow up screens or QBs if he has a clear shot and even bull back a tackle on a rush every now and then, but he should be a rotational piece. He's weak against the run and too inconsistent with his pressure off the edge to be the guy.

We're lucky in many ways to have the surplus we do at OLB, but the benefits of such can be negated if the coaches don't know how to use all the players within it.

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

On 2/10/2018 at 1:29 AM, Danand said:

Zardarius Smith played really well this year. He created a lot of disruption which helped other players get sacks and pressure. 

That we didn't find ways to use bowser and Williams was a coaching issue, and shouldn't be a knock on Smith

I know we should never take PFF's grades without a heavy dose of scrutiny, but he graded out as the #82 Edge Defender last year. https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/zadarius-smith/9555

I don't see how one could possibly say "he played really well this year". 

However, it definitely was a coaching issue that Williams and Bowser were placed on the bench, my main argument was there was little to no reason to bench them in favor of guys like Smith, who really contributed nothing to the pass rush this year (as I already laid out in a previous post).

That Browns game was a highlight reel of just how bad Deshone Kizer is. Jeez.

[Danand]

1 hour ago, Darth Pees said:

I know we should never take PFF's grades without a heavy dose of scrutiny, but he graded out as the #82 Edge Defender last year. https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/zadarius-smith/9555

I don't see how one could possibly say "he played really well this year". 

However, it definitely was a coaching issue that Williams and Bowser were placed on the bench, my main argument was there was little to no reason to bench them in favor of guys like Smith, who really contributed nothing to the pass rush this year (as I already laid out in a previous post).

That Browns game was a highlight reel of just how bad Deshone Kizer is. Jeez.

What I saw from Smith correlates with what I heard from other respective analysts. I don't put any stock into the PFF ratings. They guess and make estimates which basically make their scoring system worthless. You can always find some statistic to support your narrative, whether it is to knock or elevate a player.

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

15 minutes ago, Danand said:

What I saw from Smith correlates with what I heard from other respective analysts. I don't put any stock into the PFF ratings. They guess and make estimates which basically make their scoring system worthless. You can always find some statistic to support your narrative, whether it is to knock or elevate a player.

Both Smith's PFF grade and his overall statistics indicate he did not have a "really good year" last year. In fact, quite the contrary.

Also, what other respective analysis have you heard regarding Smith?

[Danand]

1 hour ago, Darth Pees said:

Both Smith's PFF grade and his overall statistics indicate he did not have a "really good year" last year. In fact, quite the contrary.

Also, what other respective analysis have you heard regarding Smith?

Fine, if you don't understand what taking up blockers mean, then no point in discussing.

Enjoy your statistic based analysis.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

20 minutes ago, Danand said:

Fine, if you don't understand what taking up blockers mean, then no point in discussing.

Enjoy your statistic based analysis.

I understand what taking up blockers means just fine. I don't see anything that indicates he was good at it, or that it constantly opened up guys to get sacks. Combine that with his poor sack/pressure numbers and his inability to play the run, and I'm just kind of confused how you could conclude he was really good for us.

[Danand]

55 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

I understand what taking up blockers means just fine. I don't see anything that indicates he was good at it, or that it constantly opened up guys to get sacks. Combine that with his poor sack/pressure numbers and his inability to play the run, and I'm just kind of confused how you could conclude he was really good for us.

We see very different things.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, Danand said:

We see very different things.

I'm just asking you to provide some evidence for your claims.

[Danand]

1 hour ago, Darth Pees said:

I'm just asking you to provide some evidence for your claims.

And I watched the games and saw him drawing double teams which gave other players space and room to make a play, he created pressure and forced throws, he made some sacks although less than ideal. As a rotational inside pass rusher, he did more to help the team than he did to help himself get stats. I don't know what evidence you want, but Smith is not a guy that shows up much on the stat screen. As I recall, he had a few sacks and also a forced fumble or two plus he was mentioned as a guy who created pressure which forced QB's to throw early and then got intercepted. I bet you can find some plays on youtube where he is a part of a highlight play.

To make a comparison - when a cornerback blankets a receiver and keeps him from making the play, and the safety is free to make a play and get the interception, that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Smiths "highlights" are similar.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

28 minutes ago, Danand said:

And I watched the games and saw him drawing double teams which gave other players space and room to make a play, he created pressure and forced throws, he made some sacks although less than ideal. As a rotational inside pass rusher, he did more to help the team than he did to help himself get stats. I don't know what evidence you want, but Smith is not a guy that shows up much on the stat screen. As I recall, he had a few sacks and also a forced fumble or two plus he was mentioned as a guy who created pressure which forced QB's to throw early and then got intercepted. I bet you can find some plays on youtube where he is a part of a highlight play.

To make a comparison - when a cornerback blankets a receiver and keeps him from making the play, and the safety is free to make a play and get the interception, that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Smiths "highlights" are similar.

So where are these plays then?

[Danand]

3 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

So where are these plays then?

Quit the trolling please, its getting old.

Go read your stat sites and make up your mind who plays well and who does not.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

16 minutes ago, Danand said:

Quit the trolling please, its getting old.

Go read your stat sites and make up your mind who plays well and who does not.

Oh please. You're making completely unsubstantiated claims based on what "you saw", but you can't actually back any of it up...

"Za'Darius Smith played really well!" No he didn't and here's why...

"Well from what I saw he played well" Okay show me some examples

"Quit the trolling"

[DreamKid]

Here is what Ken Mckusick from RSR, who is essentially the Baltimore Ravens personal PFF guy, had to say about Za'Darius.

"— Smith: Za’Darius played 502 snaps (48.6%) and made some significant pass rush contributions. He lined up frequently on the inside in the Ravens dime package, which allowed the Ravens to get by with 4 active DL for most games (plus Ricard for emergencies). Unfortunately, his weakness holding the edge against the run showed up again in the first drive of the finale vs the Bengals. His roster spot is in no jeopardy for 2018 and the Ravens will need to make a decision on whether or not they offer him a long-term deal. With the current depth at OLB, I am expecting the Ravens to let him walk and salvage value in terms of a compensatory pick."

https://russellstreetreport.com/2018/01/11/filmstudy/postseason-roster-evaluation-defense/

Ken tracks every player, from every game, on every snap. This is from his end of the season defensive roster evaluation. You can go through his game by game reviews on defense and look at how he tracked every player and their performance. He's a very fair, accurate, and bright analyst, a true gem for our fandom. 

You guys are both right. ZDS was a good contributor to the team, but should he have been prioritized in the EDGE rotation over Bowser & Williams? No. Playing him inside in our DIME packages was a good way to utilize a rotational player. I think Pees was scared of our OLB's ineffectiveness against the run, especially in a year where our LB play dipped significantly. So after a point he decided to only rotate ZDS in, and might've more if ZDS was able to take on more of the roles of a SAM. Funny thing is, ZDS isn't even a plus player against the run as noted by Ken. PFF agrees as well.

 

Rotating Williams and Bowser in was a headache for Pees, too mentally taxing. He was never going to give Bowser the nod over Judon, and once he got enough snaps documented of Bowser and Williams not taking over the run, he had an excuse to give into his own lack of ability. The concepts of development, situational impact, and roster adaptability, among others, are just totally lost on him. We're lucky we even got the glimpses we did of Bowser and Williams, with Pees's bias against early year players.

I'm tired of even thinking about and analyzing the Pees horror fest that took place in Baltimore, let's just hope Martindale is better.

 

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

"made significant pass rush contributions" I just want to know what that means! That's been my argument this whole time! haha. What did he do well? He obviously didn't actually produce any statistical accomplishments (pressures? hurries?) with only 3 sacks in over 500 snaps. Ken didn't mention that he was specifically great at taking up blockers and freeing up other pass rushers. So what is it? What were his "significant pass rush contributions"? Reading that summary, you'd think his best contribution was simply being able to line up inside and take snaps from our DL.

It's funny. Every single video I watch of our defense this year I'm watching Smith get stonewalled on a bull rush and then on 1-2 plays I'll notice someone getting good edge pressure, and it'll be Tyus freaking Bowser....ugh.