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The BILLievers

The Josh Rosen Hype / Rumor Train to Buffalo

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I've been going back and forth on what I want the Bills to do in this upcoming draft regarding trading up/drafting/etc. I've never been high on Josh Allen, I like Lamar Jackson a lot but I don't want to trade into the top 10 to get him, Baker Mayfield is up there for me, with Darnold and Rosen being the (2) QBs that fit what the Bills are trying to add + are the best pure passers IMO.

Pros of Sam Darnold : Sean McDermott type player, mobility, throwing power / accuracy on the run, bad mechanics but still finds a way to get the ball there (Favre, Rivers - esqe) Con : bad mechanics

Pros of Josh Rosen : a pure pocket passer, can make all the throws, pocket presence is there, uber competitive that rubs off as personality issues. Cons: "personality" issues, can make some dumb, go for it all throws. 

I've started to do some research (if you call it that) regarding the Bills "inner circles" and this I found

  • Joe Buscaglia + Matthew Fairborn podcast - Joe B. is by far the best and most plugged in beat writer for the Bills; with Fairborn right up there too. Both are younger guys that have a fresh take on things and usually are spot on. Both agree that by reading between the lines when Brandon Beane talks, Josh Rosen is there guy. Beane has said that the traits of a franchise QB are 1) their pocket presence and 2) can sling the ball anywhere on the field. Joe B. said he gets the sense if the Bills had any selection it would be Rosen hands down. He thinks Brandon Beane likes that competitive, intense edge that rubs people the wrong way. They then got into their opinions of each player and Joe Buscaglia said he sees something special in Rosen and thinks he can be the next superstar QB.
  • NFL Draft Diamonds twitter (@DraftDiamonds) --- I don't know how to post links but he has over 100k+ followers and has been right in the past, below are tweets he posted yesterday regarding the Bills:
    • Quote

       

      • I have heard so much lately it is crazy. Buffalo loves ROSEN. I mean LOVES HIM, I think everyone in league circles know it too.
      • I have watched so many UCLA games that I too love Josh Rosen. I think he would be a perfect Bills QB. He has great accuracy, and he has an F U attitude. Bills need that.
      • Bills better get to number 2 if they are 100 percent sold on Rosen

       

       

I don't mean to start another QB thread, but if the Bills truly believe that Rosen is a superstar in the making, do you sell the house and go get him??

20th overall pick + 21st overall pick + 2019 1st round pick for either #1 or #2?

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Another con I would add to Rosen is his two concussions. For his sake outside of football I hope he never gets another one.

 From a football standpoint however, that is something teams should worry about.

Also I would say Sal Capaccio is more plugged in then Joe B. Just a personal opinion. 

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18 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

Another con I would add to Rosen is his two concussions. For his sake outside of football I hope he never gets another one.

 From a football standpoint however, that is something teams should worry about.

Also I would say Sal Capaccio is more plugged in then Joe B. Just a personal opinion. 

I think Sal is more plugged in, with Joe B being more correct on his opinions/predictions for the team. Both are awesome though. 

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Not this is a knock on Darnold personally but USC QBs tend to be busts. Outside of Carson Palmer who had a decent career but never put a team on his shoulder to carry them week in and week out. Every other qb that came out has been a complete bust in the NFL. I think Darnold could be there as well. Rosen is a possibility but hearing his issues off the field, showing that he isn't hungry for the game reminds me of Manziel, who both were handed things their entire lives. Coaches and players have said he doesn't want to listen on how to better himself on the field and tends to just walk away with out regard. Allen has the arm strength to toss the deep ball but foot mechanics is something hard to fix and will take more time for him to develop also accuracy is another issue which I think is because of his footwork. Mayfield seems to be the only Qb I would be comfortable having as he is the most QB ready. Outside of his dumb antics that could be fixed with maturing but his game play has been on point. He has worked hard his entire life walked on and started for 2 colleges. He is said to be the 1st and last on and off the field as well as the gym. With that said it seems like giving up a ton of picks to move up to get one guy to me isn't worth it. I think the bills should focus on free agency and build the team up via draft with the picks they have. Maybe swing for Rudolph in the 2nd rd or Lamar in the 3rd rd which I believe is where those 2 guys should get drafted. Reaching for one of those 2 in the 1st rd is just as bad as moving up.

All in all I would much rather pay Kirk Cousins. 5 years 125 million (85 mil guaranteed 75 in the first 3 years) is where I think he would be happy with if he truly believes that being a contender is more important of getting paid. 1st year 15 mill, 2nd year 30 mil, 3rd year 30 mil, 4th year 25 mil and 5th year 25 mil. The bills will have 85 million in free cap in 2019 before letting guys like Jerry Hughes or Cordy Glenn, 2020 they have projected 140 million again doesnt reflect the 2 biggest contracts on the books. Bills will have 25 million left in cap space after signing him and cutting tyrod which can allow them to bring in a couple more important pieces to start right away plus the 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. 

Edited by soflbillsfan

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2 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

Not this is a knock on Darnold personally but USC QBs tend to be busts. Outside of Carson Palmer who had a decent career but never put a team on his shoulder to carry them week in and week out. Every other qb that came out has been a complete bust in the NFL. I think Darnold could be there as well. Rosen is a possibility but hearing his issues off the field, showing that he isn't hungry for the game reminds me of Manziel, who both were handed things their entire lives. Coaches and players have said he doesn't want to listen on how to better himself on the field and tends to just walk away with out regard. Allen has the arm strength to toss the deep ball but foot mechanics is something hard to fix and will take more time for him to develop also accuracy is another issue which I think is because of his footwork. Mayfield seems to be the only Qb I would be comfortable having as he is the most QB ready. Outside of his dumb antics that could be fixed with maturing but his game play has been on point. He has worked hard his entire life walked on and started for 2 colleges. He is said to be the 1st and last on and off the field as well as the gym. With that said it seems like giving up a ton of picks to move up to get one guy to me isn't worth it. I think the bills should focus on free agency and build the team up via draft with the picks they have. Maybe swing for Rudolph in the 2nd rd or Lamar in the 3rd rd which I believe is where those 2 guys should get drafted. Reaching for one of those 2 in the 1st rd is just as bad as moving up.

All in all I would much rather pay Kirk Cousins. 5 years 125 million (85 mil guaranteed 75 in the first 3 years) is where I think he would be happy with if he truly believes that being a contender is more important of getting paid. 1st year 15 mill, 2nd year 30 mil, 3rd year 30 mil, 4th year 25 mil and 5th year 25 mil. The bills will have 85 million in free cap in 2019 before letting guys like Jerry Hughes or Cordy Glenn, 2020 they have projected 140 million again doesnt reflect the 2 biggest contracts on the books. Bills will have 25 million left in cap space after signing him and cutting tyrod which can allow them to bring in a couple more important pieces to start right away plus the 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. 

I disagree with you on the Rosen personality issues. I think he does have that "diva" personality but I don't think it's fair to compare him to Manziel. Manziel had a history/pattern of partying, drinking, abusing drugs and domestic violence.. I haven't seen any of that regarding Rosen. Aaron Rodgers had the same tag when he came out, "kinda a jerk, self centered, etc" and he's doing fine. Rosen also could have become a superstar tennis player but chose to play football instead. I think his passion is being overblown.

 

Kirk Cousins will command more than $25 mil a year easily so I'm not seeing him coming here. I think the Broncos and Vikings both give him a better chance to succeed so I don't see him picking Buffalo over either of those towns.

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I can't wait for the Jets or Broncos to sign Cousins so we can put his talks to us to rest finally. 

Anyways, I absolutely love Josh Rosen as a player. Every game I was able to catch he made impressive throws.

I've read a lot on his personality and his negative reports get overblown because they're just that, negative. What kind of news catches like wildfire? Negativity. You don't hear about all the teammates who absolutely love the guy and his competitive nature. Sal has come on the radio many times to talk about his experience with Trent Dilfer and the camp that he runs. I don't recall the exact way he put it, but Rosen was always asking the right kinds of questions and challenging the guys the right way. He doesn't accept mediocrity and any of it drives him to be better. He seems to have the type of brain and mentality that only a handful of QBs have (Rodgers and Brady come to mind here).

Comparing him to Manziel personality wise is picking one point and running with it–the fact that they come from a wealthy background. Rosen's pattern of behavior is nothing like Manziel, he's not a party playboy throwing up the dollar signs after every score. 

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4 minutes ago, NickChowaniec said:

I can't wait for the Jets or Broncos to sign Cousins so we can put his talks to us to rest finally. 

Anyways, I absolutely love Josh Rosen as a player. Every game I was able to catch he made impressive throws.

I've read a lot on his personality and his negative reports get overblown because they're just that, negative. What kind of news catches like wildfire? Negativity. You don't hear about all the teammates who absolutely love the guy and his competitive nature. Sal has come on the radio many times to talk about his experience with Trent Dilfer and the camp that he runs. I don't recall the exact way he put it, but Rosen was always asking the right kinds of questions and challenging the guys the right way. He doesn't accept mediocrity and any of it drives him to be better. He seems to have the type of brain and mentality that only a handful of QBs have (Rodgers and Brady come to mind here).

Comparing him to Manziel personality wise is picking one point and running with it–the fact that they come from a wealthy background. Rosen's pattern of behavior is nothing like Manziel, he's not a party playboy throwing up the dollar signs after every score. 

Agree with everything above.

Some think his personality type would have a negative impact but I see a player that hates losing and doesn't accept average - something McDermott and Beane love and preach.

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52 minutes ago, The BILLievers said:

I disagree with you on the Rosen personality issues. I think he does have that "diva" personality but I don't think it's fair to compare him to Manziel. Manziel had a history/pattern of partying, drinking, abusing drugs and domestic violence.. I haven't seen any of that regarding Rosen. Aaron Rodgers had the same tag when he came out, "kinda a jerk, self centered, etc" and he's doing fine. Rosen also could have become a superstar tennis player but chose to play football instead. I think his passion is being overblown.

 

Kirk Cousins will command more than $25 mil a year easily so I'm not seeing him coming here. I think the Broncos and Vikings both give him a better chance to succeed so I don't see him picking Buffalo over either of those towns.

Im comparing him to manziel as to the fact they were handed everything in life as they both had a wealthy upbringing and that both were handed the starting QB jobs at college. Rosen was a big time partier and has caused some issues nothing close to domestic violence, but partying and drinking was a big thing for Rosen especially his first year at UCLA. I have no problem drafting rosen if the bills were a top 5 pick but the fact that they have to give up 21 + 22, likely a 2nd this year and a future early pick next year and possibly a player is to much to give up for a guy who may or may not be a franchise qb as I mentioned only 10-20% being generous on the 20% side of first rd qbs become franchise material the rest become busts. That is my issue with the bills picking rosen cause he could easily not have the passion or drive if the pressure on bills fans get to him which will happen with all these draft picks that will be in play. 

 

I still dont see why everyone counts the bills out for Cousins simply because of the money, as the bills have it. Look at it from cousins perspective if he is looking to win and get paid the bills offer both of those. The bills organization is stable with a year under the GM and HC belt which they both mesh well. They are coming off a playoff season ending the drought that has been on their backs. They have a top 5 offensive line whether you agree or not both profootballfocus and nfl.com breaks it down to prove they are 2nd and 4th in the league. They have a top 5 running back in shady. They have Clay and Benjamin both solid weapons. Along with 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds that can benefit cousins. A blue collar HC and GM with the mind set of winning, Cousins comes from a blue collar town and played in the cold his entire career. Bills have one of the best secondaries in the nfl. Denver and Minnesota dont have the capital to offer Cousins a contract without having to lose players. Bills have more cap then both of them this year, next  year, and 2020. Denver will be giving up one of their corners, one of their top wr, likely Cj Anderson, and holes on the oline. Plus Elway and Vance dont get along, and one almost got canned. Minnesota has to many upcoming young guys on both sides of the ball that will be needing long term contract so they cant afford to pay them plus why pay someone when keenum took that team to the NFC Championship? 

Bottom line I rather see the bills miss out on the money then miss out on all those potential players they can have by building the squad up in the draft. Those 5 players will equal one free agent in salary cap 4-6 mil. You give away 3 or more of those picks you have to fill them in free agency which will cost a lot more then that. So even if you argue about 25-30 million a year plus the 4-6 mil in draft picks that feeds 6 positions that can easily start next year at 29-36 million. You take the draft picks slide up to 2 your paying that guy 5.3 million in 2018 according to Trubisky's contract which will likely be more as the year increased, so 24-31 million is left to pay in free agency to fill all those holes you are giving up to move to draft slot 2. Then if rosen is available at 2 and bills take him, and he turns out to be a dud which is 80-90% of failing based on previous qbs drafted in the first rd. Since he failed and the way things go in the nfl if you cannot produce you get canned so Beane and McDermott will be out of a job and the whole process starts all over again like with the 10+ other coaches the bills have had since Marv Levy. With cousins signed it would be a dent in cap space but will not destroy the foundation of the team as they will have a shot to go after a qb in a future draft. I dont know about you but if the bills dropped 3-5 draft picks and possible players for Rosen I sure as heck would be pissed to spend another 1st rd pick on a qb in 2020 draft because they failed on rosen.

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11 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

Im comparing him to manziel as to the fact they were handed everything in life as they both had a wealthy upbringing and that both were handed the starting QB jobs at college. Rosen was a big time partier and has caused some issues nothing close to domestic violence, but partying and drinking was a big thing for Rosen especially his first year at UCLA. I have no problem drafting rosen if the bills were a top 5 pick but the fact that they have to give up 21 + 22, likely a 2nd this year and a future early pick next year and possibly a player is to much to give up for a guy who may or may not be a franchise qb as I mentioned only 10-20% being generous on the 20% side of first rd qbs become franchise material the rest become busts. That is my issue with the bills picking rosen cause he could easily not have the passion or drive if the pressure on bills fans get to him which will happen with all these draft picks that will be in play. 

 

I still dont see why everyone counts the bills out for Cousins simply because of the money, as the bills have it. Look at it from cousins perspective if he is looking to win and get paid the bills offer both of those. The bills organization is stable with a year under the GM and HC belt which they both mesh well. They are coming off a playoff season ending the drought that has been on their backs. They have a top 5 offensive line whether you agree or not both profootballfocus and nfl.com breaks it down to prove they are 2nd and 4th in the league. They have a top 5 running back in shady. They have Clay and Benjamin both solid weapons. Along with 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds that can benefit cousins. A blue collar HC and GM with the mind set of winning, Cousins comes from a blue collar town and played in the cold his entire career. Bills have one of the best secondaries in the nfl. Denver and Minnesota dont have the capital to offer Cousins a contract without having to lose players. Bills have more cap then both of them this year, next  year, and 2020. Denver will be giving up one of their corners, one of their top wr, likely Cj Anderson, and holes on the oline. Plus Elway and Vance dont get along, and one almost got canned. Minnesota has to many upcoming young guys on both sides of the ball that will be needing long term contract so they cant afford to pay them plus why pay someone when keenum took that team to the NFC Championship? 

Bottom line I rather see the bills miss out on the money then miss out on all those potential players they can have by building the squad up in the draft. Those 5 players will equal one free agent in salary cap 4-6 mil. You give away 3 or more of those picks you have to fill them in free agency which will cost a lot more then that. So even if you argue about 25-30 million a year plus the 4-6 mil in draft picks that feeds 6 positions that can easily start next year at 29-36 million. You take the draft picks slide up to 2 your paying that guy 5.3 million in 2018 according to Trubisky's contract which will likely be more as the year increased, so 24-31 million is left to pay in free agency to fill all those holes you are giving up to move to draft slot 2. Then if rosen is available at 2 and bills take him, and he turns out to be a dud which is 80-90% of failing based on previous qbs drafted in the first rd. Since he failed and the way things go in the nfl if you cannot produce you get canned so Beane and McDermott will be out of a job and the whole process starts all over again like with the 10+ other coaches the bills have had since Marv Levy. With cousins signed it would be a dent in cap space but will not destroy the foundation of the team as they will have a shot to go after a qb in a future draft. I dont know about you but if the bills dropped 3-5 draft picks and possible players for Rosen I sure as heck would be pissed to spend another 1st rd pick on a qb in 2020 draft because they failed on rosen.

Rosen partied as an 18 year old at UCLA, I'm shocked. It'd be more of a red flag if he didn't honestly. 

You've made your point numerous times around here on Cousins. I respectfully disagree. While your argument for him makes sense, my opinion differs on him as a player. I don't think he's worth the money. Many here don't. And from recent reports, the Jets, who have plenty more cap space than us, are going to make him the best offer. I hope they do.

I and many others here are tired of not taking that bet – the one where 10% you say succeed in the 1st round. It's been long enough sitting in mediocrity, it's time to take a risk on someone and make a splash at the most important position in all of sports. We have an additional 2 premium draft choices to pair with our standard amount of picks to grab a franchise player. This QB class is not weak like in 2013, and in my opinion, it's better than the Goff/Wentz class as well as last years Trubisky/Watson. The timing could not be better for us to have a couple extra premium pieces to move up with. We'll also have a ton of cap space next year to play with, and a minimum of 6 draft choices (assuming we move one of them to move into the top 5) while Rosen/that QB develops to replenish the holes. 

It's a difference in philosophies, I think both can work equally, it all depends which you like. I like the idea of building around a guy like Rosen.

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I love Rosen but I don't like a situation where we deal our 2019 first round pick.

We have far too many holes especially in our front 7 and our OL. 

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11 hours ago, BillsGuy82 said:

I love Rosen but I don't like a situation where we deal our 2019 first round pick.

We have far too many holes especially in our front 7 and our OL. 

Agreed but the QB class next year is not as strong and we also have the ammo to move up in this years draft..

If we don't select a QB in this years draft we may have to wait 1-2 years to draft our QB of the future.

 

This is the scenario I see playing out if we didn't trade up for a QB:

Draft a (2) players not QB at 20 and 21. Sign some veteran QB to start for us. Go 8-8 and have the 16th pick in next years draft. Have no ammo to trade up and either end up reaching for a QB at 16, or passing on a QB for another year.

I think it's not or never to get our QB.

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I'm good dealing 21,22 2018 2nd, 4th and say 2019 2 or 3.

But that 2019 1st May be top 15 pick 

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24 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said:

I'm good dealing 21,22 2018 2nd, 4th and say 2019 2 or 3.

But that 2019 1st May be top 15 pick 

But if it allows us to secure our QB of the future, you take it.

I'm OK with trading it away knowing we secured Tre White and Josh Rosen as (2) 1st round players in the 2017-2019 drafts.

Tough to say though, the draft should be very interesting for Bills fans.

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