The Josh Rosen Hype / Rumor Train to Buffalo

[BillsGuy82]

3 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

I dont see the Broncos passing on him, he seems similar to that cockiness Elway and Kelly had back in the day that Elway couldnt pass on him. Bills need to still make a move to 2 or 4 which can possibly be done. I expect it draft night for the bills to move up and get rosen or mayfield depending on where they draft based on jets pick too.

I think he'll be the 4th QB on board on most GM Big Boards at this point 

[soflbillsfan]

6 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said:

I think he'll be the 4th QB on board on most GM Big Boards at this point 

you think allen is ahead of him? I probably am wrong but I just dont see it, small school guy horrible accuracy and needs alot of work. I think the big arm wows GMs but the accuracy and mechanics probably deter them as well. Rosen and Mayfield seem to be the more polished QBs. Either way it will be interesting to see and I am glad the bills are looking more into these 2 then the other qbs. Media is hyping up Lamar and Allen but I think in reality those guys are middle to end of 1st rd if not 2nd rounders. I havent seen a qb drafted in the 1st with accuracy issues as bad as those 2 have had in college. 

[Iamcanadian]

13 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

you think allen is ahead of him? I probably am wrong but I just dont see it, small school guy horrible accuracy and needs alot of work. I think the big arm wows GMs but the accuracy and mechanics probably deter them as well. Rosen and Mayfield seem to be the more polished QBs. Either way it will be interesting to see and I am glad the bills are looking more into these 2 then the other qbs. Media is hyping up Lamar and Allen but I think in reality those guys are middle to end of 1st rd if not 2nd rounders. I havent seen a qb drafted in the 1st with accuracy issues as bad as those 2 have had in college. 

You could certainly be correct, but Kelly came to the Bills with the #14th pick and QB's drafted that late only have around a 6% chance for success and since I have been around for 65 years as a draftnik, Allen reminds me of Kelly quite a bit. A big armed QB who will not be bothered by Buffalo's weather and his best days could easily be ahead of him, with a huge upside if he ever develops.

Unfortunately, I do not believe he will reach us at #12 and what are the alternatives.

1) Rosen, an immobile QB who has already had 2 serious concussions and a separated shoulder and is often compared to Sam Bradford!!!

2) Baker Mayfield, a short QB who I happen to love, but if Rosen slips and teams take your opinion on Allen, could be gone before we get a shot at him!

So, if you are right about Allen and Jackson, we then traded up for nothing unless Rudolph is our pick??? Or are you completely satisfied going into the season with McCarron as our starter, possibly for the next 2 to 4 seasons, as we may never finish low enough to draft a solid QB or have the current ammunition to trade up for one!!!  

Allen may be our only choice if we want a top 4 QB, if so, what would you do???

[soflbillsfan]

10 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

You could certainly be correct, but Kelly came to the Bills with the #14th pick and QB's drafted that late only have around a 6% chance for success and since I have been around for 65 years as a draftnik, Allen reminds me of Kelly quite a bit. A big armed QB who will not be bothered by Buffalo's weather and his best days could easily be ahead of him, with a huge upside if he ever develops.

Unfortunately, I do not believe he will reach us at #12 and what are the alternatives.

1) Rosen, an immobile QB who has already had 2 serious concussions and a separated shoulder and is often compared to Sam Bradford!!!

2) Baker Mayfield, a short QB who I happen to love, but if Rosen slips and teams take your opinion on Allen, could be gone before we get a shot at him!

So, if you are right about Allen and Jackson, we then traded up for nothing unless Rudolph is our pick??? Or are you completely satisfied going into the season with McCarron as our starter, possibly for the next 2 to 4 seasons, as we may never finish low enough to draft a solid QB or have the current ammunition to trade up for one!!!  

Allen may be our only choice if we want a top 4 QB, if so, what would you do???

Rosen has had 2 concussion which is true and I dont expect him to play this year if the bills get him as I do believe Aj will be the said "test dummy" when it comes to having a pocket passer behind the line of scrimmage. If it is true about nfl.com and profootballfocus the bills had a top 5 oline then he should be perfectly fine sitting in the pocket. If not then the bills have the opportunity to see where the weak spots are and be able to address them next offseason when they have close to 100 mil and 9 draft picks. Which will then give rosen the opportunity to learn at the NFL level and be ready for 2019 season. Also he didnt have separated shoulder he had a partial torn rotator cuff which healed perfectly and the NFL doctors fully cleared him at the combine with both issues. Yes receiving a concussion is more prone to people who have already had them but he is not the first player or even qb to come in to the nfl with already having one and still manage to have a long successful career ie Troy Aikman. Concussions were no big deal back in the day and werent brought up but guys like Aikman played 12 years and had atleast 8 known concussions. 

Everyone knocks mayfield cause his height yet no one has  problems with Brees and Wilson. Both found ways to figure out how to play qb with out having that issue of not being able to see over the line. Mayfield reminds me so much of Brees on accuracy and wilson on his feet of rolling out of the pocket. Mayfield is consistent he is the only qb in the draft class that has an average of 69-70% completion in college, Brees has either led the league or come in 2nd in that category the last several years. If Mayfield can figure out to be as accurate as both Brees and Wilson then I am all for moving up to take him. I dont care about people questioning his maturity or cockiness hes not the first nor the last qb to be cocky just ask John Elway, Jim Kelly, or Dan Marino those dudes were chippy and cocky when they were in college and in their younger years in the NFL. This dude works his butt off in the gym and in the film room, hes got players who have shown they got his back in college and I expect the same at the pro level. All in all if it was one of these 2 qbs that the bills signed 2018 will be a success because beane/mcdermott have done something the bills havent done in 25 years and that is to get a franchise qb without settling for some 2nd tier guy. 

 

As for Allen I am indifferent as I am no scout and cannot see the promise in the guy but if the people who get paid to watch him play and see something then Im all for what they believe in. Something about Lamar and Rudolph dont sit well with me they remind me to much of the past bills qbs that I do not want to continue to watch.

[Iamcanadian]

14 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

Rosen has had 2 concussion which is true and I dont expect him to play this year if the bills get him as I do believe Aj will be the said "test dummy" when it comes to having a pocket passer behind the line of scrimmage. If it is true about nfl.com and profootballfocus the bills had a top 5 oline then he should be perfectly fine sitting in the pocket. If not then the bills have the opportunity to see where the weak spots are and be able to address them next offseason when they have close to 100 mil and 9 draft picks. Which will then give rosen the opportunity to learn at the NFL level and be ready for 2019 season. Also he didnt have separated shoulder he had a partial torn rotator cuff which healed perfectly and the NFL doctors fully cleared him at the combine with both issues. Yes receiving a concussion is more prone to people who have already had them but he is not the first player or even qb to come in to the nfl with already having one and still manage to have a long successful career ie Troy Aikman. Concussions were no big deal back in the day and werent brought up but guys like Aikman played 12 years and had atleast 8 known concussions. 

Everyone knocks mayfield cause his height yet no one has  problems with Brees and Wilson. Both found ways to figure out how to play qb with out having that issue of not being able to see over the line. Mayfield reminds me so much of Brees on accuracy and wilson on his feet of rolling out of the pocket. Mayfield is consistent he is the only qb in the draft class that has an average of 69-70% completion in college, Brees has either led the league or come in 2nd in that category the last several years. If Mayfield can figure out to be as accurate as both Brees and Wilson then I am all for moving up to take him. I dont care about people questioning his maturity or cockiness hes not the first nor the last qb to be cocky just ask John Elway, Jim Kelly, or Dan Marino those dudes were chippy and cocky when they were in college and in their younger years in the NFL. This dude works his butt off in the gym and in the film room, hes got players who have shown they got his back in college and I expect the same at the pro level. All in all if it was one of these 2 qbs that the bills signed 2018 will be a success because beane/mcdermott have done something the bills havent done in 25 years and that is to get a franchise qb without settling for some 2nd tier guy. 

 

As for Allen I am indifferent as I am no scout and cannot see the promise in the guy but if the people who get paid to watch him play and see something then Im all for what they believe in. Something about Lamar and Rudolph dont sit well with me they remind me to much of the past bills qbs that I do not want to continue to watch.

I have to say that I do not for a moment think f that if we manage to get at least a 1 to 4 QB in this draft, that he will sit a season, unless McCarron blows our socks off and has a great season! Whoever we get, if McCarron struggles at all, our rookie QB will start somewhere between the 6th and 8th game of the season, that's the way it is regularly done in the NFL.

I am in full agreement with you on Mayfield, I love his cockiness and leadership qualities. As for his accuracy, in Oklahoma's offense, a very high completion average is quite the norm and we will not know how that translates to the next level until he gets there.

Unfortunately, our previous owner could not contend once FA came into being, he simply lacked the financial resources to remain competitive and it often showed itself in our small scouting department and weak GM's. We are now extremely lucky to have an owner who seems willing to spend big dollars to compete!

I also agree that Lamar and Rudolph are a step below the top 4 QB's, but I still like Allen as a prospect and think it is quite possible, he turns out to be the best QB coming from this crop. You just never know!

As for concussions, in Aikman's day, players took no notice of them and rarely complained when they got one, but fortunately, those days are behind us and a concussion can easily end a season for any player, as they are considered quite serious as they should be!!!

[Yibbyl]

21 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

I have to say that I do not for a moment think f that if we manage to get at least a 1 to 4 QB in this draft, that he will sit a season, unless McCarron blows our socks off and has a great season! Whoever we get, if McCarron struggles at all, our rookie QB will start somewhere between the 6th and 8th game of the season, that's the way it is regularly done in the NFL.

I am in full agreement with you on Mayfield, I love his cockiness and leadership qualities. As for his accuracy, in Oklahoma's offense, a very high completion average is quite the norm and we will not know how that translates to the next level until he gets there.

Unfortunately, our previous owner could not contend once FA came into being, he simply lacked the financial resources to remain competitive and it often showed itself in our small scouting department and weak GM's. We are now extremely lucky to have an owner who seems willing to spend big dollars to compete!

I also agree that Lamar and Rudolph are a step below the top 4 QB's, but I still like Allen as a prospect and think it is quite possible, he turns out to be the best QB coming from this crop. You just never know!

As for concussions, in Aikman's day, players took no notice of them and rarely complained when they got one, but fortunately, those days are behind us and a concussion can easily end a season for any player, as they are considered quite serious as they should be!!!

Yes, he should have a very high completion rate given the "gimme" throws he was asked to do. Still, though I can't vouch for the statistical significance due to what might be a limited number of attempts, those who have researched his play have found that Mayfield was actually quite accurate when asked to perform those NFL caliber throws. Per the following link to a SI article, "Filtering for all passes in 2016 and ’17, thrown from the pocket, 15 or more yards downfield (Dig, Corner, Post, Seam, Go, Sluggo, Hitch & Go, Post Corner, Corner Post, Out & Up), the data shows that Mayfield is 31st in FBS over the last two season on these types of attempts, but 10th in completions and yards, with 22 touchdowns and four interceptions."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/22/baker-mayfield-advance-analytics-nfl-draft-oklahoma-pff

The real drawback to playing in that offense is that we'll probably never really know just how much practice he had in reading defenses. He also wouldn't have been required to go through progressions very often. Sure the NFL is increasingly utilizing spread and timing elements in their offenses, but the D's are better and any QB in the NFL must be able to do more than simply take instructions from the sidelines. Mayfield certainly did that on a regular basis, but according this same article, he has the football smarts to pick up new ideas and responsibilities. If true, that's a good sign...for whoever gets him.

[soflbillsfan]

Bills have confirmed that both Rosen and Mayfield will be meeting with Bills in Buffalo for a pre draft visit......Also CBS Jason LaConfora is stating the bills are desperately trying to move up to top 5...Some are saying they may have to move up with one team such as Denver in order to move up to the Giants at 2.

[BillsGuy82]

1 hour ago, soflbillsfan said:

Bills have confirmed that both Rosen and Mayfield will be meeting with Bills in Buffalo for a pre draft visit......Also CBS Jason LaConfora is stating the bills are desperately trying to move up to top 5...Some are saying they may have to move up with one team such as Denver in order to move up to the Giants at 2.

Ugh mixed thoughts with going all the way to 2. Baker Mayfield 4-9 would be nice. We'd be able to keep some picks.

[soflbillsfan]

52 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said:

Ugh mixed thoughts with going all the way to 2. Baker Mayfield 4-9 would be nice. We'd be able to keep some picks.

Not sure whats going to happen I think this draft has had the most uncertainty in a long time with where the qbs will go. Still think Cards can be a dark horse for one and cant sleep on them. It may be best to give up more picks then they have to just to make sure they get their qb. 

 

Im still trying to understand why so many media people think that the bills are infatuated with Allen, Peter King swears they are going up to get him at 2. Yet the bills havent shown as much interest as they have had with Rosen and Mayfield.

[LeeEvans]

13 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

Not sure whats going to happen I think this draft has had the most uncertainty in a long time with where the qbs will go. Still think Cards can be a dark horse for one and cant sleep on them. It may be best to give up more picks then they have to just to make sure they get their qb. 

 

Im still trying to understand why so many media people think that the bills are infatuated with Allen, Peter King swears they are going up to get him at 2. Yet the bills havent shown as much interest as they have had with Rosen and Mayfield.

Just the same tired "big arm for the snow" comment. See a lot of people compare his arm strength to Newton's and people draw on the Carolina connection. 

[BillsGuy82]

1 hour ago, LeeEvans said:

Just the same tired "big arm for the snow" comment. See a lot of people compare his arm strength to Newton's and people draw on the Carolina connection. 

He's alot more than that imo. I'd be shocked if Mayfield goes before him tbh

[Billsfaninptown]

2 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

Not sure whats going to happen I think this draft has had the most uncertainty in a long time with where the qbs will go. Still think Cards can be a dark horse for one and cant sleep on them. It may be best to give up more picks then they have to just to make sure they get their qb. 

 

Im still trying to understand why so many media people think that the bills are infatuated with Allen, Peter King swears they are going up to get him at 2. Yet the bills havent shown as much interest as they have had with Rosen and Mayfield.

Peter King is now reporting that the Browns are taking Allen #1, so who knows what's going to happen. Smoke screens everywhere. I think the Bills might be leaking out false information on Allen to the media to make teams in the top 5 think about taking him and that might increase the chances of Mayfield or Rosen falling.

[The BILLievers]

1. Josh Rosen

2. Sam Darnold

3. Baker Mayfield

4. Lamar Jackson

5. Josh Allen

 

My rankings : Rosen is the #1 QB imo, Darnold is #1 by most league circles, Mayfield is my favorite prospect and who I'd be most excited for, Lamar Jackson is underrated because he's being mislabeled, Josh Allen im going back and forth on but is behind the other 4.

[soflbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Billsfaninptown said:

Peter King is now reporting that the Browns are taking Allen #1, so who knows what's going to happen. Smoke screens everywhere. I think the Bills might be leaking out false information on Allen to the media to make teams in the top 5 think about taking him and that might increase the chances of Mayfield or Rosen falling.

well if allen goes at 1 giants may be more inclined to take darnold then trade out. I think its all a smoke screen especially on the bills cause no one knows what they want until it happens just look at all the moves they have done. Coming out as it happens. I think Peter King is grasping at straws and basing it on one of these sources that whaley likely leaked to in the past.

[BillsGuy82]

3 hours ago, Billsfaninptown said:

Peter King is now reporting that the Browns are taking Allen #1, so who knows what's going to happen. Smoke screens everywhere. I think the Bills might be leaking out false information on Allen to the media to make teams in the top 5 think about taking him and that might increase the chances of Mayfield or Rosen falling.

Josh Allen going 1 would be amazing for us.