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VanS

Lamar Jackson should get 1st overall pick consideration...

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6 hours ago, lark25 said:

highest ceiling WR in the draft?

Probably. But if he came out and said he's moving to WR tomorrow, I still wouldn't take him over Calvin Ridley. Ridley will be a legitimate #1 receiver IMO. He's very talented and excels in multiple areas.

Lamar Jackson will at the very least be this draft classes best return man if the QB thing or the WR thing doesn't work out for him.

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On 2/21/2018 at 11:16 PM, VanS said:

You see that is the big drawback in taking a guy like Lamar 1st overall.  Even if he's shown good durability up to this point in his career, its not a guarantee to continue.  And when you run as much as he does, you're bound to put yourself in harms way.  Which is why the pocket passer is still in vogue.  You can't really invest $20 million in a QB that gets hit like a RB every game and expect him to play every snap of every game (as is required for franchise QBs).

 

First, I do not think his HC and OC will use him as a running QB, they will use his speed and escapability, to let his receivers get wide open and if he is capable, he could just terrorize the league.

People assume, he will be a running QB, but even Vick, used his attributes to help his passing, over actually just running the ball and Jackson's quickness may easily prevent him from taking too many clean shots as it did for Vick. 

As I said, I do not completely know if Jackson is Vick like, I will need to see him on his pro day, where they will showcase his talent, to see just how much escapability he has.

As for 20 million a year, he will not command a whole lot through his first 4 seasons in the league and will only get that kind of money when he reaches FA, so the Risk for a GM and HC who really believe in the guy, is not all that great!!!

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On 2/21/2018 at 3:02 PM, VanS said:

I'm not sure people have the horses in the NFL to keep up with Lamar Jackson either.  As I said in my OP, people are seriously underrating this guys athleticism.  Its other-worldly.  And if anything, I would argue college football teams are schematically more set up to stop running QBs like Lamar Jackson more than the NFL teams.  Why?  Because NFL teams don't see spread running QBs as often as college teams do.  Remember after the 2012 season when RG3, Kaepernick, and Russell Wilson ripped apart the league with read-option you had NFL defensive coordinators going to college coaches trying to figure out how to stop the read-option. 

Lamar Jackson is a special athlete.  The NFL will figure his legs out to a degree but not early on.  He will wreck havoc next season because nobody has seen anyone like him in the league since Atlanta Falcons Michael Vick.  Its gonna take awhile for teams to get used to his speed and athleticism.  And the thing that makes him special isn't his speed.  Its his elusiveness.  He's almost Barry Sanders-esque as a runner when it comes to making people miss.  And unlike most running QBs, I'm not afraid of him getting hurt.  He has that uncanny ability to avoid big hits like Russell Wilson.

Lamar Jackson the runner will be very difficult for NFL teams to stop.  VERY DIFFICULT. 

I agree people forget teams don't have the depth that college does. He's also not a headcase like RG3. Seems like a smart well rounded football loving guy. If he masters no huddles, and tempos, drawing teams offsides, works with Tom House for seasons he could become what mike vick coulda been.

I think Bengals land him and have Hue next year.  Wouldnt want him at 5 but I want him. I'd understand him at 5.

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I think people look tooo much into LJ's or others  college schemes! There looking for a ceiling and when you look up which they all do.......u miss what's under you! Simplify things ive been doing this for a long time but I do realize nobody is wrong in thd long run just off a bit but jackson simply is the right handed Mike Vick!!!!!

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What if the Browns went Barkley/Jackson in the draft?  That would make for a pretty dynamic rushing attack.  :o

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has there been any recent qbs (last 15 years or so) that have had serious, widely agreed upon accuracy issues that have developed into good, accurate passers in the nfl. If you cant be trusted to throw the ball accurately, you prob shouldnt be a 1st rounder. I dont think its as easy to say (oh, we'll just fix his accuracy issues), my memory and draft history aint great but in struggling to think of a guy that actually turned into a good qb with those concerns. To think about taking him 1st overall is idiotic imo, given what we know in todays nfl.

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3 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said:

has there been any recent qbs (last 15 years or so) that have had serious, widely agreed upon accuracy issues that have developed into good, accurate passers in the nfl. If you cant be trusted to throw the ball accurately, you prob shouldnt be a 1st rounder. I dont think its as easy to say (oh, we'll just fix his accuracy issues), my memory and draft history aint great but in struggling to think of a guy that actually turned into a good qb with those concerns. To think about taking him 1st overall is idiotic imo, given what we know in todays nfl.

Been my argument for years. Accuracy (as in ball placement) is very much an athletic skill, that is much more genetic than we want to give it credit for (or else guys like Manning and Brady would be pulling the same nonsense throws that Rodgers pulls out of his butt). I'm it can improve, somewhat, but most "accuracy" gains are more improvements in decision making that being a more skilled thrower of the ball. I'm sure there is an exception somewhere here and there but I too struggled to find it, which is why accuracy is the number factor I scout for in QBs, assuming minimum NFL athleticism/arm is present.

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4 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said:

has there been any recent qbs (last 15 years or so) that have had serious, widely agreed upon accuracy issues that have developed into good, accurate passers in the nfl. If you cant be trusted to throw the ball accurately, you prob shouldnt be a 1st rounder. I dont think its as easy to say (oh, we'll just fix his accuracy issues), my memory and draft history aint great but in struggling to think of a guy that actually turned into a good qb with those concerns. To think about taking him 1st overall is idiotic imo, given what we know in todays nfl.

Matt Stafford. 57% in college, steadily got better as his college career went on. Started sluggishly in the NFL, but scheme changes, progression... he's been over 65% the last three years I think

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19 minutes ago, Forge said:

Matt Stafford. 57% in college, steadily got better as his college career went on. Started sluggishly in the NFL, but scheme changes, progression... he's been over 65% the last three years I think

stafford doesnt really fit what i described though. Yes he had poor accuracy #'s in his early college career but that can be chalked up to a lot of things. He never had the widespread questions about his accuracy that i mentioned above, the knock (if any) on him was a little more mental. His was probably one of the most hyped guys just in terms of thowing the football in recent memory, coming out of high school i think it was kiper who said he was destined to be a #1 pick. 

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9 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

stafford doesnt really fit what i described though. Yes he had poor accuracy #'s in his early college career but that can be chalked up to a lot of things. He never had the widespread questions about his accuracy that i mentioned above, the knock (if any) on him was a little more mental. His was probably one of the most hyped guys just in terms of thowing the football in recent memory, coming out of high school i think it was kiper who said he was destined to be a #1 pick. 

He definitely had accuracy issues, but I would agree that his were more attributable to things like laziness, mechanical issues, etc. Unfortunately, I think he's going to be the closest you can get for this question. Generally speaking, accuracy issues doesn't lend itself to a high pick, so I think the cupboard is kind of bare for comps, but the ones that are there are not good. You're talking Josh Freeman (flopped), Kyle Boller (flopped), ej Manuel (flopped), Jake locker. I didn't think tannehill displayed amazing accuracy when he came out, but I don't know if he was bad enough to warrant accuracy concerns. 

Cam Newton was not and still isn't considered accurate do he doesn't fit what you want. Jay Cutler, maybe? I do think Rodgers has gotten much more accurate, but he wasn't inaccurate in college, of course

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On 2/21/2018 at 2:53 PM, BleedTheClock said:

You know what you do to mobile QB's like Lamar Jackson? You plan man coverage and blitz his throwing arm side. Then you have a DE sit on the backside with a muddled rush and just wait for him to come to you. Boom! Success. It's how teams shut Michael Vick's legs down. Pretty simple stuff. Nobody in college has the horses to run press man across the board which is why you don't see it at that level. NFL teams do.

 

Fair enough with your evaluations. I disagree, but what do you or I really know. NFL GM's do this for a living and fail 50% of the time.

In his prime, before he went to prison, no defense ever shut down Michael Vick, they just prayed his accuracy would remain far below average, because it was almost impossible to tackle him when he was escaping the pass rush and his receivers had basically, all day to get open. The only way Vick didn't tear defenses apart was because, he could not hit a wide open receiver if his life depended on it. 

I am not completely sure Jackson has that type of elite escapability, but if he does, he is a far more accurate passer than Vick ever dreamed of being!!!

To say, defending Vick was pretty simple stuff is utter rubbish IMO, for a guy who was terribly inaccurate, he still took teams to the playoffs many times.

People seem to forget that Jackson has a very solid pro arm, just behind Allen in strength and while he may miss a few targets, when he hits one, it tends to go a long distance and he is not that inaccurate, not by a longshot!!!

Edited by Iamcanadian

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