2018 Franchise Tag - Placed on Joyner

[BStanRamFan]

18 hours ago, The LBC said:

We've been through this.  No, it wasn't; that's pretty narrowminded.  Sammy was insurance to help ensure the development of Goff - which was achieved.  If he doesn't re-sign because we get outpriced in the market by the Niners or Bears (we can match whatever the Ravens put on the table, their cap is pretty limited and lacking much in the way of flexibility), there's a better than decent chance of Watkins returning a 3rd round comp pick next year.  Both of those would be a ROI, i.e. far from "nothing."

Trading away a 2nd for a 1 year rental and receiving a 3rd is not a good ROI. Goff's development is not limited to just 1 year, it's going to happen over the course of several years. You cant capture Sammy's presence in the stat sheet for how a high safety is dedicated to him coming over the top of the defense, opening up the middle of the field for Kupp, Woods, Gurley. And to those who think we can match that type of presence in a flyer FA or J Reynolds, they will be tested and allowed one on one matchups deep; i do not believe they will have the same impact as Watkins did.

 

Now let's look at the math of this move which is what really irks me (other than the grammar police on this message board). Top FS average 11 million a year annually. That is what the tag is paying Joyner for 1 year. So whether we worked out a long term deal or tagged him, he would be making roughly the same amount.

 

Option A: Tag Joyner. Pay him $11.5mill for one year. Watkins hits FA. Likely gets paid ridiculous money by Bears/49ers. We lose him.

Option B: We sign Joyner to a long term deal. Likely pay Joyner 11-12 mill for multiple years. Tag Watkins and pay him 14$ mil for one season. He stays and plays a $14 year prove it deal. We do not get a 3rd round compensatory pick.

 

I can live with paying a potential top 10 WR (cause that's how I view him) $14 mill on his prove it deal and not getting a 3rd round back to say we finally have a true #1 we've been missing since Torry Holt. "But in McVays offense you don't have a true #1".Yup don't care. You need a player of Watkins caliber to keep this offense top 5. He does so much more than last years stat sheet indicates.

[Non-Issue]

Of the two, I would prefer to keep Joyner.

WRs are always a dicey acquisition. I think Sammy is a complimentary WR. Kind of a luxury. Whereas, LJ definitely fits a desperate need for us in the defensive backfield.

I honestly think we could get the same type of production from a field stretcher like a Ted Ginn at a quarter of the price. We just need someone fast to draw off a safety.

 

[stl4life07]

1 hour ago, Non-Issue said:

Of the two, I would prefer to keep Joyner.

WRs are always a dicey acquisition. I think Sammy is a complimentary WR. Kind of a luxury. Whereas, LJ definitely fits a desperate need for us in the defensive backfield.

I honestly think we could get the same type of production from a field stretcher like a Ted Ginn at a quarter of the price. We just need someone fast to draw off a safety.

 

I disagree with you on Watkins. Last year was his first season with the team. He didn’t even have a full offseason with the Rams. It’s hard as it is too switch teams as a receiver and produce. Go look at Jeffery, Cooks, Pryor, DJax, Maclin, Decker, JMatt, B Marshall, and K Benjamin? All those receivers switched teams last season and had off years by their standards. So every fan of those teams can say the same thing that their teams could find the same 2017 production with a cheaper guy. Truth is, guys like Jeffery and Cooks you can’t find talent wise just anywhere and their 2nd season should be a lot better because of them having another season with their team. I feel the exact same way with Watkins. Having a full offseason with the Rams and a 2nd season in the offseason with Goff would help Watkins tremendously. His talent is undeniable and you can find a talent like him with just anybody. Sure you can find someone to produce the numbers Watkins did in 2017 but the upside for Watkins is higher than that. So it’s going to come down to money obviously but I’d love to see Watkins in his 2nd year with the Rams to see what he can do.

[Non-Issue]

On 3/8/2018 at 1:16 PM, stl4life07 said:

I disagree with you on Watkins. Last year was his first season with the team. He didn’t even have a full offseason with the Rams. It’s hard as it is too switch teams as a receiver and produce. Go look at Jeffery, Cooks, Pryor, DJax, Maclin, Decker, JMatt, B Marshall, and K Benjamin? All those receivers switched teams last season and had off years by their standards. So every fan of those teams can say the same thing that their teams could find the same 2017 production with a cheaper guy. Truth is, guys like Jeffery and Cooks you can’t find talent wise just anywhere and their 2nd season should be a lot better because of them having another season with their team. I feel the exact same way with Watkins. Having a full offseason with the Rams and a 2nd season in the offseason with Goff would help Watkins tremendously. His talent is undeniable and you can find a talent like him with just anybody. Sure you can find someone to produce the numbers Watkins did in 2017 but the upside for Watkins is higher than that. So it’s going to come down to money obviously but I’d love to see Watkins in his 2nd year with the Rams to see what he can do.

Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods switched teams last year too. And Kupp was a rookie. What was their secret?

I just dont think Watkins is all that great a fit for what our offense is doing. And I dont think, in our offense, he would be worth what it takes to franchise him. We are better off tagging LJ to solidify our defensive backfield than we are holding onto a player that has been proven relatively unimportant to the success of the offense.

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, Non-Issue said:

Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods switched teams last year too. And Kupp was a rookie. What was their secret?

I just dont think Watkins is all that great a fit for what our offense is doing. And I dont think, in our offense, he would be worth what it takes to franchise him. We are better off tagging LJ to solidify our defensive backfield than we are holding onto a player that has been proven relatively unimportant to the success of the offense.

I think Sammy is a great fit for what we're doing, but I don't think his role will lead to elite production. I also don't think he's irreplaceable. There are other guys who can take the top off the defense. Even if they aren't as good as Sammy, we have other weapons to pick up the slack. As long as they keep the defense honest on the deep ball, they're doing their job.

[stl4life07]

37 minutes ago, Non-Issue said:

Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods switched teams last year too. And Kupp was a rookie. What was their secret?

I just dont think Watkins is all that great a fit for what our offense is doing. And I dont think, in our offense, he would be worth what it takes to franchise him. We are better off tagging LJ to solidify our defensive backfield than we are holding onto a player that has been proven relatively unimportant to the success of the offense.

Well Kupp was a rookie in which how many rookie WRs come in and hit the ground running? Of the top of my head last season it was Kupp and JuJu. The other rookie WRs did really nothing. Woods is one of the few exceptions. I’d put Ginn Jr. in that category who changed teams and played somewhat well. But again go look at the stats and I just named you 9 guys with big names who underperformed in their first season with their team.

I’m sorry but I have a hard time convincing myself that a smart person like McVay would talk with Snead into trading a 2nd round pick for Watkins just to “see” if he fits the offense then realizes he didn’t and now let him walk. Like McVay is smarter than that. He did his homework and knew ahead of time before he traded for Watkins if he would be the right fit. Had he knew he wouldn’t be he wouldn’t have made that move. Remember he got Watkins AFTER Woods Kupp Reynolds and installing the offense in OTAs and minicamp and the start of training camp. So McVay had plenty of time to sit back evaluate things and he came to the conclusion Watkins would be perfect for the offense so he made the trade.

Again the issue is it’s hard most WRs to come into an offense year 1 and click just like that. Especially a guy like Watkins who never played in a scheme like McVay plus he never really relied on anything other than his talent. Now Watkins have learned throughout the season different routes he never ran before (see the play he made in NYG where he said he never ran that route/play before), he is learning how to read defenses better etc... He is still 24yrs old. Like not only will he get better as a NFL player/WR but if he stays in this offense he will get better within this offense, chemistry with Goff will become second nature and McVay will have plenty of opportunities to draw up more special plays for Watkins. But you can’t replace his talent with just anyone. That’s all I’m saying.