Kurgan's Mock 2.0--PRE COMBINE

[jebrick]

I will say that Value is a term draftniks use.  It is perceived value based on where we think the player should be drafted.  The GMs set the actual value in the draft then the Players reset it after they play several years.  I try not to talk about value picks after the draft because the teams are defining the value of the player by the pick.

[Steeler Hitman]

16 hours ago, Armsteeld2 said:

Value is one of the more useless terms used in football when it comes to the draft.  How does one truly determine value?  Need and Risk are better words to determine drafting a player rather than value.  Value in football terms is hindsight or putting it loosely, guess or luck.  Slow down Tito!  Check on what I said before rapidly responding.  Allow the words to caress your taste buds before spitting them out.  Now, let’s hear it lol

I like how you broke that down and I am rolling.....

11 hours ago, warfelg said:

Personally I think it's an important word.

To me:

Value pick = A position you didn't really need but fell to you with a highly rated player. David Decastro.

Value need = Quality player at a need position. Ryan Shazier.

Need = You just took a player high on your board at a position that he would be a fast contributor. Artie Burns.

Value Risk = Best player I can peg into this as an example is Reuben Foster.  Niners took a risk taking him, but his on field talent at that point made him a value pick.

Risk = Off field issues might out weigh the on field production but he can produce.  Martavis Bryant.

 

Value is a word needed in the draft, but it needs to be combined with something else.  There's much more and it's something that the 'professionals' that do mock drafts will make you think is cut and dry.  I read one today that had 4 QB's go in the top 5 because they were 'valuable'.  I wanted to scream.  They were need based reaches.

You guys are on a roll. Great breakdown.  I almost want to add the word like to it as well.  For as much science, research or evaluations as we think, there are players that teams just like that fit in with the categories that you both listed.  I loved Shazier's speed and athleticism, but I didn't think he was a better LB prospect than CJ Mosely or even Hightower whom we passed on. I thought that Darron Lee was a better first round prospect than Shazier in comparing the two.

It is an inexact art.  I also thought Willie Colon would have been an All Pro RT, Kordell Stewart was the second coming of Brett Farvre, FS Scott Shields would consistently lead the league in INT's, and Sequez Golson would be then next Antoine Winefield....... And unlike the words of Armsteeld2, please don't let those names marinate on your tongue too long. LOL

[warfelg]

31 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I like how you broke that down and I am rolling.....

You guys are on a roll. Great breakdown.  I almost want to add the word like to it as well.  For as much science, research or evaluations as we think, there are players that teams just like that fit in with the categories that you both listed.  I loved Shazier's speed and athleticism, but I didn't think he was a better LB prospect than CJ Mosely or even Hightower whom we passed on. I thought that Darron Lee was a better first round prospect than Shazier in comparing the two.

It is an inexact art.  I also thought Willie Colon would have been an All Pro RT, Kordell Stewart was the second coming of Brett Farvre, FS Scott Shields would consistently lead the league in INT's, and Sequez Golson would be then next Antoine Winefield....... And unlike the words of Armsteeld2, please don't let those names marinate on your tongue too long. LOL

I think that Ryan was a better prospect than CJ or Hightower.  And we didn't pass on Hightower.  He was there but DeCastro was also there and a better player that fit a need.  Even looking back I rather have DeCastro.

Shazier has the brain of Mosely and Hightower; but at the same time he has unparalleled athleticism.  Darron Lee wasn't a better prospect, and it showed watching tape.  He's athletic, but was slow to react, arm tackled, unable to get off blockers.

[Steeler Hitman]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

I think that Ryan was a better prospect than CJ or Hightower. 

No right or wrong here, but we will agree to disagree. Ryan is one of the most physically gifted ILB prospects that had come out in years, however, his instincts, play diagnosis and ability to fight of blockers is no where near Hightower's or Mosley's in my opinion. Again, it is not that I am right and you are wrong or vice versa, that is the art of what we see.  I will agree with you in that because Ryan is so athletic, his potential ceiling could be higher. And truthfully before his injury he was definitely going in that direction.

And we didn't pass on Hightower.  He was there but DeCastro was also there and a better player that fit a need.  Even looking back I rather have DeCastro.

No doubt, I think most of us were happy we even got a sniff at De Castro let alone we got to draft him. De Castro was a higher rated player than Hightower.  I don't know why he fell, but I am glad he did.  

P.S. I get what you are saying, but that is called passing on a person when you draft someone else over them. (just busting your chops a little)

Shazier has the brain of Mosely and Hightower; but at the same time he has unparalleled athleticism.  Darron Lee wasn't a better prospect, and it showed watching tape.  He's athletic, but was slow to react, arm tackled, unable to get off blockers.

I don't think that Shazier has Mosely's instincts or football IQ.  No knock to Shazier, whom I love as a player and am glad we drafted, but this is like making the Troy Polamalu to Ed Reed comparison.  I see some of the same things with Shazier that you pointed out about Lee. I bring this up to say that sometimes people view better prospects from where they are presently versus other prospects as opposed to where they can go I.E. higher ceiling.

I definitely respect your football acumen as well as many others on here whom I have learned a lot from your input and experience.