Redt Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 41 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: You're describing 2017 HHCD. 2016 HHCD was anything but just a guy. 2014-2015 He was above average for a youngster, but he really took a step in 2016. Not wanting to be argumentative, but I was shocked honestly that he was named 2nd team all-pro in 2016. I think he made the team mostly through Int #'s that year and his overall play was average. IMO he is not a high impact difference maker and the 2016 defense was as bad as this year. Maybe he will have an excellent 2018 campaign under the new DC and should be given an extension, but I for one would want to see it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deekster37 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 9 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said: You have to think they've talked to him, probably several times, about his play, attitude, body language. They probably have a good feel what caused all that and if it was him being mad at his role, they'll probably look to do the best they can within reason to keep him happy and playing back where he was. I have no fear signing him now, I just don't think he'll want to. I agree with this and I personally think it's been solved with the new hire of Pettine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 7 hours ago, Redt said: Not wanting to be argumentative, but I was shocked honestly that he was named 2nd team all-pro in 2016. I think he made the team mostly through Int #'s that year and his overall play was average. IMO he is not a high impact difference maker and the 2016 defense was as bad as this year. Maybe he will have an excellent 2018 campaign under the new DC and should be given an extension, but I for one would want to see it first. I think it's a mistake to take the success of the entire defense and attempt to lay it at one players feet to prove he's not a "difference maker." There are a lot of good football players on this league who are more than valuable that can't drag a poor defense into a good one. Secondary to that I don't think there's much defense to HHCD being an average safety in 016, but I can't defend him last year other than my impression that he was just fed up with Capers overall and how he was used on top of it. I'm cool with waiting too, mostly because I don't think he wants to sign early but it can be more comfortable for all after too. But that doesn't hide the fact we could play a little risk and do it early. Like someone said, he's played way more good football than bad. I'm not going to get too caught up in what have you done lately with a young guy like him because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deekster37 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 2 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said: I think it's a mistake to take the success of the entire defense and attempt to lay it at one players feet to prove he's not a "difference maker." There are a lot of good football players on this league who are more than valuable that can't drag a poor defense into a good one. Secondary to that I don't think there's much defense to HHCD being an average safety in 016, but I can't defend him last year other than my impression that he was just fed up with Capers overall and how he was used on top of it. I'm cool with waiting too, mostly because I don't think he wants to sign early but it can be more comfortable for all after too. But that doesn't hide the fact we could play a little risk and do it early. Like someone said, he's played way more good football than bad. I'm not going to get too caught up in what have you done lately with a young guy like him because of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deekster37 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Deekster37 said: 2 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said: I think it's a mistake to take the success of the entire defense and attempt to lay it at one players feet to prove he's not a "difference maker." There are a lot of good football players on this league who are more than valuable that can't drag a poor defense into a good one. Secondary to that I don't think there's much defense to HHCD being an average safety in 016, but I can't defend him last year other than my impression that he was just fed up with Capers overall and how he was used on top of it. I'm cool with waiting too, mostly because I don't think he wants to sign early but it can be more comfortable for all after too. But that doesn't hide the fact we could play a little risk and do it early. Like someone said, he's played way more good football than bad. I'm not going to get too caught up in what have you done lately with a young guy like him because of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Here is a piece by Andrew Herman on Clinton Dix 2016 compared to 2017 with numerous film clips. https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/film-review-what-happened-to-haha-clinton-dix-449 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redt Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 3 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said: Here is a piece by Andrew Herman on Clinton Dix 2016 compared to 2017 with numerous film clips. https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/film-review-what-happened-to-haha-clinton-dix-449 Thanks 1265, this is exactly what I have seen out of HHCD throughout his time in GB, which I have stated and gotten rebuked. Hope he improves, but I believe this is what he is, JAG and we could upgrade from him and certainly would not resign or extend at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 HHCD was a disaster last season ... a really heartless performance turned in for the majority of the year. He gets this year to show he's the real deal .. if he doesn't come thru you just let him walk in 2019. I wouldn't give him an extension at this point unless it's for bargain rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 14 hours ago, Redt said: Thanks 1265, this is exactly what I have seen out of HHCD throughout his time in GB, which I have stated and gotten rebuked. Hope he improves, but I believe this is what he is, JAG and we could upgrade from him and certainly would not resign or extend at this time. IDK how anyone can think he's just a guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deekster37 Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 11:13 AM, Packerraymond said: You extend him now, you get a team friendly deal, you extend him later you pay market value. Just like Adams, he bet on himself, and cashed in. If you wait for HHCD to prove last year was a fluke, you pay for him at his highest level. Now is actually a great time to extend him. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 11:13 AM, Packerraymond said: You extend him now, you get a team friendly deal, you extend him later you pay market value. Just like Adams, he bet on himself, and cashed in. If you wait for HHCD to prove last year was a fluke, you pay for him at his highest level. Now is actually a great time to extend him. Except no agent in his right mind is going to tell his client to sign off on a team friendly deal when he knows he's a year away from FA, and with a halfway decent year is going to get top S money because of his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: Except no agent in his right mind is going to tell his client to sign off on a team friendly deal when he knows he's a year away from FA, and with a halfway decent year is going to get top S money because of his age. This literally happens all the time. Look at Nelson with us recently, Rodgers first deal, an agent is the employee of the player, not the other way around. If that guy wants to stay with the team and make sure he's compensated, it gets done. We're talking the difference in HHCD getting 4/40 or 4/32 here, it's still enough money in the bonus to set you up for life. If HHCD tears an achilles after the bad year he had, now he's only getting a 1 year prove it deal and if he has a poor year coming back from injury, now he's never getting that long term deal in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: This literally happens all the time. Look at Nelson with us recently, Rodgers first deal, an agent is the employee of the player, not the other way around. If that guy wants to stay with the team and make sure he's compensated, it gets done. We're talking the difference in HHCD getting 4/40 or 4/32 here, it's still enough money in the bonus to set you up for life. If HHCD tears an achilles after the bad year he had, now he's only getting a 1 year prove it deal and if he has a poor year coming back from injury, now he's never getting that long term deal in the NFL. Except that's not what you're advocating. You just said that he was signing a team friendly deal, which would fall closer to that 3 year, $18M range as opposed to the 4 year, $24M deal that his fair market is. Market value is $8M/year over the course of four years. Team friendly is $6M over three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Except that's not what you're advocating. You just said that he was signing a team friendly deal, which would fall closer to that 3 year, $18M range as opposed to the 4 year, $24M deal that his fair market is. Market value is $8M/year over the course of four years. Team friendly is $6M over three years. I think you're undervaluing the safety market pretty significantly. If HHCD would sign for 4/24 I'd do that right now in a heartbeat. Burnett is going to get way more than that and he's not capable of making the type of plays HHCD is when he's playing at a high level. Jefferson got 4/34 in Baltimore last year. Mathieu is at 5/60, Sportrac predicts around 10 per for Burnett. HHCD from 2016 is easily worth 4/40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I think you're undervaluing the safety market pretty significantly. If HHCD would sign for 4/24 I'd do that right now in a heartbeat. Burnett is going to get way more than that and he's not capable of making the type of plays HHCD is when he's playing at a high level. Jefferson got 4/34 in Baltimore last year. Mathieu is at 5/60, Sportrac predicts around 10 per for Burnett. HHCD from 2016 is easily worth 4/40. I think you're overvaluing it IMO. Elite safety money is $10M+, that's the top 6 safeties in terms of AAV. The next tier is that $6.5M to $10M range, which is the 7-15th highest paid S. Tony Jefferson just signed a 4 year, $34M deal last year with the Ravens. Barry Church just signed a 4 year, $26M with the Jaguars last offseason. Those are two veteran safeties. HHCD isn't signing a 4 year, $24M deal right now, because it's not in his best interest. He can wait a year from now and he's probably getting closer to that $8M/year that the market value set him at. Neither HHCD or Morgan Burnett are getting elite S money, you can bank on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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