Forge Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said: It’s a damn shame we aren’t going to see McKinnon. I don’t care what everyone is saying that signing was not that bad at the time. He was such a force in the playoffs for the vikes I was really excited about him to contribute in Shannys offense. As for the roster I guess it’s a good thing this happened now and not week 7 after he was able to return to practice. Now that spot on the 53 is open, Jeff Wilson or another position player? Tough call For that amount of money it was. He's okay as a player, of course, but we didn't have to pay him as a top 4 running back at the time. That being said, I prefer the way Rudy once described it - definitely an overpay, but in the end, largely inconsequential, which I agree with. It was just a terrible value signing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Forge said: For that amount of money it was. He's okay as a player, of course, but we didn't have to pay him as a top 4 running back at the time Meh, I get what you're saying but his pay was based on fit imo. We'll never know now but Jet was the pretty much the ideal RB for Shanny on the market at time. Some wanted Dion Lewis but I beleive he sidged a deal that wasn't too far off from Jet's at the time, either that same off-season or the previous year. Shanny's desire to use the RB as a legitimate receiving threat and being lined-up all over the field, including the slot was so much of a perfect fit for Jet. And also at the time we were not the only team vying for his services. It wasn't like we outbid ourselves. But ultimately I think his injury is a result of the previous medical staff's incompetence. They diagnosed him with a knee strain or something to that effect. He comes back after 2 weeks I think it was and then tears his ACL a hour into practice. I've always felt he was misdiagnosed, which wouldn't be the first for a NFL medical staff. What could have been.... Edited August 28, 2019 by 757-NINER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, 757-NINER said: Meh, I get what you're saying but his pay was based on fit imo. We'll never know now but Jet was the pretty much the ideal RB for Shanny on the market at time. Some wanted Dion Lewis but I beleive he sidned a deal that wasn't too far off from Jet's at the time eithet that same off-season or the previous year. Shanny's desire to use the RB as a legitimate receiving threat and being lined-up all over the field, including the slot was so much of a perfect fit for Jet. And also at the time we were not the only team vying for his services. It wasn't like we outbid ourselves. But ultimately I think his injury is a result of the previous medical staff's incompetence. They diagnosed him with a knee strain or something to that effect. He comes back after I2 weeks I think it was and then tears his ACL a hour into practice. I've always felt he was misdiagnosed, which wouldn't be the first for a NFL medical staff. What could have been.... Depends on what you mean by "not too far off". He got over 10 million less over the same 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW21 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 57 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said: It’s a damn shame we aren’t going to see McKinnon. I don’t care what everyone is saying that signing was not that bad at the time. He was such a force in the playoffs for the vikes I was really excited about him to contribute in Shannys offense. As for the roster I guess it’s a good thing this happened now and not week 7 after he was able to return to practice. Now that spot on the 53 is open, Jeff Wilson or another position player? Tough call I don’t think we’d have any problem getting Wilson onto our PS. I would use that spot on one of the receivers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said: I don’t think we’d have any problem getting Wilson onto our PS. I would use that spot on one of the receivers. Agreed. And I don't know why carrying 5 running backs would even be a thought. The roster was hard enough to pare down even with McKinnon already previously ticketed for IR lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, 48 1/2ers said: It’s a damn shame we aren’t going to see McKinnon. I don’t care what everyone is saying that signing was not that bad at the time. He was such a force in the playoffs for the vikes I was really excited about him to contribute in Shannys offense. As for the roster I guess it’s a good thing this happened now and not week 7 after he was able to return to practice. Now that spot on the 53 is open, Jeff Wilson or another position player? Tough call It was a bad signing at the time. He was massively overpaid, even for the absolute best case scenario in how he would work out here, he was overpaid. He is no where near a top 15 running back, so paying him top 5 in his position was FOOLISH, no matter how you slice it. He is not a good football player. He has poor vision and isn't great at changing direction. He is a very gifted athlete who can catch the ball. That doesn't mean he is a good fit for our offense. I disagree that he was 'a force' for the Vikings. He had some splash plays where he was left open on a dump off or got a huge running lane on an outside run. That doesn't mean he is a good player. Look at his tenure on the vikes. He was never their lead guy, and every time their lead guy would get hurt, he would be thrust into action for a few weeks before they transitioned someone else into the lead role, and had him as the third down back or the change of pace guy. That happened two years in a row. They went out and drafted Dalvin Cook high, because they didn't feel McKinnon could carry the load. A healthy McKinnon starts on maybe 10-12 teams in the NFL. MAYBE. Yet we paid him to be one of the best in the league at his position. I hope that this would be a lesson to lynch and shanny about how they pay guys and who they go after, but alas I fear they will use the injury as an excuse and not really learn anything from it. Its frustrating. Hopefully some wins this year can lead to some At some point, we are going to have to stop using the yearly team options for free agents. I think we have to pay guys more to do this. We have had the cap space, so it has been fine, but lets just sign quality players to solid contracts, even if that locks us in for longer periods of time. I am sick of paying mediocre players a lot of money. I think if we offered better terms, we could actually negotiate with guys more. It seems like guys just take our first offer because it is so ridiculous lol Kwon will be the next guy we talk about not being worth the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
struby3 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, N4L said: He is not a good football player. He has poor vision and isn't great at changing direction. He is a very gifted athlete who can catch the ball. That doesn't mean he is a good fit for our offense. This is where you lost me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justone2 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 19 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Moore should make the team. And quite frankly, he would he is just better and more valuable than Street right now. Honestly i can't think of a single reason for Moore to make the team. He is at best the fourth edge rusher we have and he literally offers zero upside to become anything more at this point. The guy just lacks any athleticism to be an effective edge rusher when he goes against more than 2nd and 3rd stringers. At his age the only reason to keep him is if he will be active on game days and with Ford, Bosa, Blair, Thomas and Armstead who can all fill roles at the edge i don't see any way he will be active. Thats why the chance a guy like Street makes the roster over him isn't about what they are now but the potential that is there since they likely won't be active anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, Justone2 said: Honestly i can't think of a single reason for Moore to make the team. He is at best the fourth edge rusher we have and he literally offers zero upside to become anything more at this point. The guy just lacks any athleticism to be an effective edge rusher when he goes against more than 2nd and 3rd stringers. At his age the only reason to keep him is if he will be active on game days and with Ford, Bosa, Blair, Thomas and Armstead who can all fill roles at the edge i don't see any way he will be active. Thats why the chance a guy like Street makes the roster over him isn't about what they are now but the potential that is there since they likely won't be active anyway. If you listened to the podcast, you would have been given a reason In seriousness, it just comes down to how badly you want another weak side pass rushing (leo style) pass rusher. Blair is a strong side 5 tech, and though we have put Solly and Armstead out there, we all know how that goes with regards to rushing the passer. He's essentially the third string LEO if you want to get that deep into the minutiae of positional restrictions, and he'd possibly be more effective rushing the passer from that spot than anyone else that we can put there if Ford / Bosa are both out at any point (despite Solly, Armstead, and Blair all being the superior players). The second part of that would be that I think he definitely gets picked up, and a team can never have too many pass rushers. That seems to be the only reason that we may keep hold of CJ, tbh (See Shanny's comments recently about "NFL quarterbacks" which would suggest we are keeping three). Now, I wouldn't completely disagree with you about him on a player evaluation perspective. If you think he's just not a good player, than of course it doesn't make any sense to hold on to him. I'm just assuming that the staff doesn't share the same evaluation in my scenario. Honestly, my preference would be to take a Darius Fleming approach to him and just get something for him (I believe it was fleming that we drafted, he had a really nice preseason the following year, and we traded him to the colts for a late pick before cut down day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Don't think I like Blair as a 5 tech. He should be more of a LEO option than 5t. Moore had impressive splash plays, but the OT he was against was really lousy to begin with. Not sure if DM is worthy, really. Is there no one worth picking up as a PS game 4 option vs DM to battle for that 4th LEO spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, oldman9er said: Don't think I like Blair as a 5 tech. He should be more of a LEO option than 5t. Moore had impressive splash plays, but the OT he was against was really lousy to begin with. Not sure if DM is worthy, really. Is there no one worth picking up as a PS game 4 option vs DM to battle for that 4th LEO spot? I could be wrong, as we do mix and match on the front, but I'm fairly sure that Blair has always been the big end / 5 tech in his packages. I can't remember him much on the other side at all, though again, that could admittedly be incorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Not often a fan of arrogant strutting types, but c'mon, Pettis. You can do better than this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Just now, Forge said: I could be wrong, as we do mix and match on the front, but I'm fairly sure that Blair has always been the big end / 5 tech in his packages. I can't remember him much on the other side at all, though again, that could admittedly be incorrect You're probably right, though I dare wonder if I hadn't seen some snaps otherwise. Overall, I was projecting what I think his role should be (obviously not over Bosa/Dee).. and a Blair/LEO match is probably something that Saleh and Co. disagree with... right or wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, oldman9er said: You're probably right, though I dare wonder if I hadn't seen some snaps otherwise. Overall, I was projecting what I think his role should be (obviously not over Bosa/Dee).. and a Blair/LEO match is probably something that Saleh and Co. disagree with... right or wrong. Yeah, it's really easy to get lost in the positional restriction thing too, which I try not to do, but fall into nonetheless lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW21 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Forge said: If you listened to the podcast, you would have been given a reason In seriousness, it just comes down to how badly you want another weak side pass rushing (leo style) pass rusher. Blair is a strong side 5 tech, and though we have put Solly and Armstead out there, we all know how that goes with regards to rushing the passer. He's essentially the third string LEO if you want to get that deep into the minutiae of positional restrictions, and he'd possibly be more effective rushing the passer from that spot than anyone else that we can put there if Ford / Bosa are both out at any point (despite Solly, Armstead, and Blair all being the superior players). The second part of that would be that I think he definitely gets picked up, and a team can never have too many pass rushers. That seems to be the only reason that we may keep hold of CJ, tbh (See Shanny's comments recently about "NFL quarterbacks" which would suggest we are keeping three). Now, I wouldn't completely disagree with you about him on a player evaluation perspective. If you think he's just not a good player, than of course it doesn't make any sense to hold on to him. I'm just assuming that the staff doesn't share the same evaluation in my scenario. Honestly, my preference would be to take a Darius Fleming approach to him and just get something for him (I believe it was fleming that we drafted, he had a really nice preseason the following year, and we traded him to the colts for a late pick before cut down day). I think it was Cam Johnson. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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