.Buzz Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 12 minutes ago, Tugboat said: Sure, the mechanics didn't completely fall to pieces like last year. But that's not exactly the most inspiring growth and step forward. That's like "growth" to a baseline, barely functional bare minimum level. The actual results on the field are what it's really all about...and in that regard, it was all manner of one step forward, two steps back, three steps forward, two steps back, etc. I didn't see the clear positive progression you're painting it as last year. I saw a wildly inconsistent guy with good games and really bad games, and very little rhyme or reason to it. And a coaching staff that overall, learned how to manage Blake's worst problems better. And that doesn't give me much convincing reason to expect something completely different next year. Again, you are taking things to the limits with your analogies. He had his ups and downs but he was not as nearly as up and down as you are making it out to be. Them playing ground and pound and relying on the D wasn't him taking two steps back. That's how Hackett and Marrone coach. They are guys who like to rely on the run and we clearly had a top 2 defense and didn't want to take chances because we knew if we got up by 3-7 points we had a very decent shot at closing it out as long as we didn't turn it over. Both TEN games, BUF (although what he did with his feet was impressive), and ARI were the only games that I would say were gut wrenching to watch as he struggled big time. SF was a total meltdown by the whole team and Blake brought us back a couple times before the defense gave it up. But he had to play hero ball to get us back into it. Did he have others where he wasn't at his best and made a couple mistakes? Sure. But that happens to most everyone. Regardless, he IS the best option for 2018 besides Cousins. He got a contract that is extremely team friendly and doesn't lock us into him if we get weapons for him and he doesn't take another step. He did have a lacking supporting cast. That was my only argument coming into this thread as there was people stating how the Jaguars are dumb for 'committing" (which we didn't) and stating we should have got someone else and name guys that clearly aren't better. It's one thing if there was clearly a better option that would make sense and not kill us cap wise, but saying we should have gotten a rookie when we pick at the end of the 1st or naming guys like AJ McCarron is just ridiculous. To act as if the first year playing in that style of offense is what Blake maxes out at with the situation he was in talent wise on offense just surprises me from you honestly. I know you aren't saying that he is definitely maxed out, but you seem to think there isn't that good of chance of continued growth based on how you are talking. No one is arguing that Blake's consistency is an issue here, I certainly haven't. But the guy is still young and clearly isn't done developing based on what I'm seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 18 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Again, you are taking things to the limits with your analogies. He had his ups and downs but he was not as nearly as up and down as you are making it out to be. Them playing ground and pound and relying on the D wasn't him taking two steps back. That's how Hackett and Marrone coach. They are guys who like to rely on the run and we clearly had a top 2 defense and didn't want to take chances because we knew if we got up by 3-7 points we had a very decent shot at closing it out as long as we didn't turn it over. Both TEN games, BUF (although what he did with his feet was impressive), and ARI were the only games that I would say were gut wrenching to watch as he struggled big time. SF was a total meltdown by the whole team and Blake brought us back a couple times before the defense gave it up. But he had to play hero ball to get us back into it. Did he have others where he wasn't at his best and made a couple mistakes? Sure. But that happens to most everyone. Regardless, he IS the best option for 2018 besides Cousins. He got a contract that is extremely team friendly and doesn't lock us into him if we get weapons for him and he doesn't take another step. He did have a lacking supporting cast. That was my only argument coming into this thread as there was people stating how the Jaguars are dumb for 'committing" (which we didn't) and stating we should have got someone else and name guys that clearly aren't better. It's one thing if there was clearly a better option that would make sense and not kill us cap wise, but saying we should have gotten a rookie when we pick at the end of the 1st or naming guys like AJ McCarron is just ridiculous. To act as if the first year playing in that style of offense is what Blake maxes out at with the situation he was in talent wise on offense just surprises me from you honestly. I know you aren't saying that he is definitely maxed out, but you seem to think there isn't that good of chance of continued growth based on how you are talking. No one is arguing that Blake's consistency is an issue here, I certainly haven't. But the guy is still young and clearly isn't done developing based on what I'm seeing. Oh, i don't disagree that given the circumstances, Bortles is the best option for 2018. Especially given what his extension does for our cap situation this year. Frankly, i think all things considered, he's probably a better option than Cousins even, given what that's probably going to cost...now, and for the future. Smith was the guy that looked like a worthwhile upgrade to me, but with the price of his extension in addition to trade cost, even that probably wouldn't have been a better situation overall. I just don't agree with the picture you seemed to be painting of this consistently growing QB who is finally "getting it" and is going to roll into 2018 as anything more than a wildly inconsistent gunslinger with a mediocre arm, awkwardly shoehorned into a game manager role. That's what he is. And i don't see any reason to confidently believe 2018 will reveal some highly evolved Bortle that is really any different from 2017 Bortles. Maybe he comes in with a slight advantage in that he's another year more familiar with the system, and the staff seemed to sort of find a way to better incorporate the things he does do well...sometimes. But it's not like it was just the first few weeks of last year that he struggled to adjust, indicating he was permanently turning some massive corner in his game. The dookies were sprinkled throughout the year, right to the end...pretty clearly indicating to me that regression is eminently possible at any moment, on any given Sunday. I fully expect another complete rollercoaster of a season from Bortles. Like the 2017 rollercoaster, and hopefully not the car crash of 2016. So that's progress. Just seemed like you were really overselling Bortles with some real sunshine pumping expectations that glossed over the truly awful lows sprinkled throughout Bortles 2017 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 22 hours ago, frenchie said: I'd put Smith and Bortles in the same category... 22 hours ago, frenchie said: And before you ask, here are the current starters IMO, that are worse than he is: Winston, McCown, Eli, Mariota, Flacco, Taylor, Brissett, Cutler, Trubisky, Gabbert, Siemian, Savage, Kizer. and I'm sure we could debate a few of these, but to rank Bortles at 30 is laughable. Bortles is not better than Winston. Winston is the same level of “wtf are you doing!” except he puts it together more consistently. McCown won’t be a starting QB next year. Eli and Flacco...debatable. Especially Eli who had the worst offensive cast and one of the worst HCs last year. Not better than a healthy Mariota. Brissett is a backup QB. Cutler is a backup QB. Trubisky, definitely. We’ll see how he is next year. Gabbert is a backup QB. Siemian, definitely. Savage is a backup QB. Kizer, definitely. So Bortles is 19th in your opinion, not including Luck, Watson, and Tannehill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tugboat said: Oh, i don't disagree that given the circumstances, Bortles is the best option for 2018. Especially given what his extension does for our cap situation this year. Frankly, i think all things considered, he's probably a better option than Cousins even, given what that's probably going to cost...now, and for the future. Smith was the guy that looked like a worthwhile upgrade to me, but with the price of his extension in addition to trade cost, even that probably wouldn't have been a better situation overall. I just don't agree with the picture you seemed to be painting of this consistently growing QB who is finally "getting it" and is going to roll into 2018 as anything more than a wildly inconsistent gunslinger with a mediocre arm, awkwardly shoehorned into a game manager role. That's what he is. And i don't see any reason to confidently believe 2018 will reveal some highly evolved Bortle that is really any different from 2017 Bortles. Maybe he comes in with a slight advantage in that he's another year more familiar with the system, and the staff seemed to sort of find a way to better incorporate the things he does do well...sometimes. But it's not like it was just the first few weeks of last year that he struggled to adjust, indicating he was permanently turning some massive corner in his game. The dookies were sprinkled throughout the year, right to the end...pretty clearly indicating to me that regression is eminently possible at any moment, on any given Sunday. I fully expect another complete rollercoaster of a season from Bortles. Like the 2017 rollercoaster, and hopefully not the car crash of 2016. So that's progress. Just seemed like you were really overselling Bortles with some real sunshine pumping expectations that glossed over the truly awful lows sprinkled throughout Bortles 2017 season. Fair enough. I was never trying to paint him as you are saying. Literally the only reason I have continued replying in this thread was from the crowd that I mentioned in the previous post regarding how we should have got some other non-existent better option for next year and slammed Bortles as if he's the worst QB in the league (some seriously think he is in the bottom 3-4 based on these replies). Hard not to reply to things like that, especially when BB5 is my dude (as frustrating as he is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Edit: nvm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodjahs12 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I second Buzz’s position here on Bortles. Wasn’t nearly as bad this past season especially late as he’s been in years past. This deal could look like a bargain this time next season if that defense continues playing at an elite, they add a line piece and Fournette can stay healthy. Add a young TE to pair with Lewis (yeah I’d keep him another year) and that team will be able to play with anyone again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 33 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Fair enough. I was never trying to paint him as you are saying. Literally the only reason I have continued replying in this thread was from the crowd that I mentioned in the previous post regarding how we should have got some other non-existent better option for next year and slammed Bortles as if he's the worst QB in the league (some seriously think he is in the bottom 3-4 based on these replies). Hard not to reply to things like that, especially when BB5 is my dude (as frustrating as he is). Yeah. I get that then. Easy dude to like for sure, and a lot of the drama about being "married" to him because of the extension was pretty silly and missing the point. And realistically...the alternatives are all actually worse, which is the bottom line for me. 21 minutes ago, Rodjahs12 said: I second Buzz’s position here on Bortles. Wasn’t nearly as bad this past season especially late as he’s been in years past. This deal could look like a bargain this time next season if that defense continues playing at an elite, they add a line piece and Fournette can stay healthy. Add a young TE to pair with Lewis (yeah I’d keep him another year) and that team will be able to play with anyone again. So far as i know, the Jaguars picking up Marcedes Lewis option indicates he will indeed be back for at least another year. I think all indications are that he's pretty committed to retiring a lifelong Jaguar, start to finish. And while he's obviously lost a step, he's still a good veteran, and a low maintenance TE who works just fine in a run-heavy scheme anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I think the biggest concern is that the team...barring unforeseen circumstances...wont be able to "hide" Bortles next season like they did this season. Not only should Watson, Luck and Mariota be healthy...we are also no longer playing a cup cake last placed schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 11:12 PM, TitanLegend said: ...Have you watched Bortles since 2015? Yes I have; Bortles wasn't good in 2016, but guess what, that whole team was a train wreck that year, and he still managed to put up half decent numbers, and was not one of the worst QBs in the league that year, contrary to popular belief. In 2017, I think Bortles showed solid improvement despite an underachieving o-line, and receivers that still can't catch. On 2/27/2018 at 11:12 PM, TitanLegend said: Putting Smith and Bortles in the same category will probably make me question everything you ever post. I know Smith is a better QB, but at 34 years old, and a $24 million price tag, is he really that much better of an option? Smith is certainly more careful with the ball, but honestly, their production is very similar. And I don't post for your approval, so you can question whatever you want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 On 2/28/2018 at 9:10 PM, Yin-Yang said: Bortles is not better than Winston. Winston is the same level of “wtf are you doing!” except he puts it together more consistently. Definitely debatable. even if you have Winston ranked higher, it'd be by a few slots at most; it's not like Winston is decidedly better than Bortles, and vice versa. Smith is better, but again, it's not by much; not sure why it's hilarious to say they are in the same category... On 2/28/2018 at 9:10 PM, Yin-Yang said: Eli and Flacco...debatable. Especially Eli who had the worst offensive cast and one of the worst HCs last year. at this point in time, I take Bortles, who is younger and has put up better numbers over the last few years, and certainly outperformed them both this past season. On 2/28/2018 at 9:10 PM, Yin-Yang said: Not better than a healthy Mariota. Mariota was healthy pretty much all season; getting tired of the injury BS... Bortles could have played like he did in 2016, and still had a better season than Mariota. On 2/28/2018 at 9:10 PM, Yin-Yang said: McCown won’t be a starting QB next year. *** but started every game in 2017... Brissett is a backup QB. *** but started every game in 2017... Cutler is a backup QB. *** but started 14 games in 2017... Gabbert is a backup QB. *** Was Drew Stanton or Carson Palmer better than Bortles? ...no Savage is a backup QB. *** started 8 games in 2017... So Bortles is 19th in your opinion, not including Luck, Watson, and Tannehill? I'm aware a few of these guys won't be starting next year, but I was more/less ranking the starters from 2017. Luck and Tannehill didn't play at all last season, and Watson played 5 games. Luck would certainly be ranked ahead, but the jury is still out on his future. Tannehill would be ranked ahead, but not by much. Watson looked very good, but I need more than 5-6 career games to rank a player. Sadly, there are fools out there that already have him in the top 5... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 10 hours ago, frenchie said: Definitely debatable. even if you have Winston ranked higher, it'd be by a few slots at most; it's not like Winston is decidedly better than Bortles, and vice versa. Smith is better, but again, it's not by much; not sure why it's hilarious to say they are in the same category... at this point in time, I take Bortles, who is younger and has put up better numbers over the last few years, and certainly outperformed them both this past season. Mariota was healthy pretty much all season; getting tired of the injury BS... Bortles could have played like he did in 2016, and still had a better season than Mariota. I'm aware a few of these guys won't be starting next year, but I was more/less ranking the starters from 2017. Luck and Tannehill didn't play at all last season, and Watson played 5 games. Luck would certainly be ranked ahead, but the jury is still out on his future. Tannehill would be ranked ahead, but not by much. Watson looked very good, but I need more than 5-6 career games to rank a player. Sadly, there are fools out there that already have him in the top 5... I think the point is probably more...those QBs all suck. Most are either replaced, or in the process of being replaced. If that constitutes the bulk of your "better than these guys" list...it's a pretty uninspiring list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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