NCAA Recruiting Thread

[THE DUKE]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

@THE DUKE I also think the G-League route prepares guys better for the league then the traditional college route. Obviously it wasn't great for Green's brand to the general public because very few people got to see him play. But he was also working with NBA coaches, trainers, executives, and playing against/practicing with NBA veterans everyday. I'm not sure if Brian Shaw is going to remain the head coach of the G-League team but I think the time Jalen spent with him will prove to be extremely valuable as he transitions to the NBA. 

It'll be interesting to see how these guys transition into the league.  Rookie year Green vs Cade could essentially become a proxy argument for agents vs schools when trying to get the top recruits. I think a big thing for the blue bloods of college basketball, is that they can legitimately almost promise 7 figure deals for the very top recruits. If you're starring at Duke, you're looking at serious cash.  Similarly with Kentucky and Kansas.

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

It'll be interesting to see how these guys transition into the league.  Rookie year Green vs Cade could essentially become a proxy argument for agents vs schools when trying to get the top recruits. I think a big thing for the blue bloods of college basketball, is that they can legitimately almost promise 7 figure deals for the very top recruits. If you're starring at Duke, you're looking at serious cash.  Similarly with Kentucky and Kansas.

I think LaMelo Ball already serves as a good example for guys considering which route to take. He left HS as a sophomore, went to Lithuania, then played in the G-League, returned to HS for his senior season, then spent a year in Australia before entering the draft. It seems to have worked out well for him as he was just ROY and has already signed a $100M shoe deal with Puma. 

Obviously it's still early in the process so things have to be sorted out and high profile athletes will get bigger deals. But the rules themselves seem a little weird as they state that athletes are allowed to earn money through endorsements and social media promotions/brand partnerships. 

The deals that have been announced thus far have been pretty lackluster. The Kentucky men's basketball team partnered with Cameo where they'll be paid between $40-$60 for each personal video that they make for fans. Bo Nix signed an endorsement with the fast food chain Milo's. A lot of the Alabama guys have signed endorsement deals with a random video game streaming service. And Miami's starting QB signed a deal worth $20,000 to sell NFT's through a new tech startup company. 

The only big deal that I've really seen is Oregon's Kayvon Thibodeaux's endorsement deal with Phil Knight although they haven't really announced the payment details or what the deal really entails. The rules vary state to state but IIRC one of the big no, no's is taking money from boosters or taking any money for recruited related purposes. So it seems like a conflict of interest that Phil Knight, the CEO of Nike, who also happens to be an Oregon alumni and major program donor, giving Thibodeaux an endorsement deal. And it also raises questions about what kind of endorsement deals the top athletes can even really get. Like Emoni Bates for example, if he goes to MSU which is a Nike school, can he sign a shoe deal with Nike or is that a conflict of interest? And since the school's basketball team is required to wear Nike's on court if he were to sign a shoe deal with Adidas, would they allow him to play in them?

 

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

That's true but Overtime's new HS basketball league also changes things. They've already signed a few high profile recruits and just signed Nathan Missia-Dio who is considered one of the top young prospects in Europe who was already playing professional basketball. 

Any player aged 16-18 is eligible to sign with the league, make a $100k salary while also receiving health care, full coverage insurance, get private schooling to finish their HS education, and receive equity in the company/league. If for whatever reason any player that signs with the league doesn't become a pro, the league is also going to give them a full ride scholarship to pay for their college education. The catch is that any player that does sign with the league also immediately forfeits their college eligibility.    

But this isn't like Lavar's make shift JBA league, they have serious backing. They received investments from a number of high profile businessmen, NBA executives, entertainers, current NBA players. Including guys like the late David Stern, Drake, Jeff Bezos, and Kevin Durant. They've also received investment from large private hedge funds. I think the league has already been valued at $250M before even playing a game. 

Obviously the team won't be playing on ESPN or any other major platform. But Overtime has over 50 million followers on social media and averages 1.8 billion views across those platforms each month. The reality show that they did on Jalen Green during his year at Prolific Prep averaged around 1M views per episode on YouTube. 

So I think for a really high profile recruit such as an Emoni Bates or Zion Williamson signing with the Overtime league followed by going the G-League route (if the one-n-done rule is still in effect) makes a ton of sense. If either one of those guys signed with the league as a sophomore they would've guaranteed themselves $300k in their last 3 years of HS basketball. And they would've also became eligible to sign major endorsement deals at 16 years old. While they may not get a ton of endorsements from smaller companies as the league is unlikely to have a ton of viewership. I could 1 million percent see companies like Nike, Adidas, etc offering a kid like Emoni or Zion a major shoe deal even at 16-17 years old just to get ahead of the curve. It'd also be pretty ground breaking for Nike to release a signature shoe for someone like Emoni Bates while he's still in HS. And for any player that does go this route they can then go play in the G-League and make another $500k. 

I think demand for G League and professional HS teams will shoot up and will be on TV more than people think.  More people already know Bates and Chet Holmgren because they were on ESPN.  No way that ESPN or some other sports network doesn't have a deal relatively quick if they get some names that have NBA hype around them.  

As for the lack of viewership this year in the G League, I think a lot had to do with covid and the bubble and it was brand new.  If Green and Kuminga, and maybe someone like Todd come into the NBA and show ability right away, more people will be intrigued for next year.  If they all flop in the NBA, then it would likely make kids more cautious.  But I don't see any way that demand for these games doesn't shoot up, even just after the draft process as people want to know more about Jalen Green. 

[NYRaider]

12 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I think demand for G League and professional HS teams will shoot up and will be on TV more than people think.  More people already know Bates and Chet Holmgren because they were on ESPN.  No way that ESPN or some other sports network doesn't have a deal relatively quick if they get some names that have NBA hype around them.  

As for the lack of viewership this year in the G League, I think a lot had to do with covid and the bubble and it was brand new.  If Green and Kuminga, and maybe someone like Todd come into the NBA and show ability right away, more people will be intrigued for next year.  If they all flop in the NBA, then it would likely make kids more cautious.  But I don't see any way that demand for these games doesn't shoot up, even just after the draft process as people want to know more about Jalen Green. 

Respectfully I have to agree to disagree. ESPN will always push college basketball first and foremost because of the huge TV deals they have with all of the power conferences. They also have the TV rights to the G-League and aired games on ESPN2 but realistically other than the team of top prospects, are people going to be that interested in watching a bunch of fringe NBA role players play against them? Other than Jalen Green the rest of the other HS kids struggled playing against pros and they were getting whooped almost every game. Most of the G-League teams play in small, random cities around the country in tiny arenas that never sell out despite tickets being like $10. 

Overtime's league could potentially create some demand and land them a TV deal because they already have such a huge following on social media and a ton of funding from big named investors. But the league isn't going to be structured like what we see in the G-League or college basketball. They're just signing 30 players that they're going to place on "dynamic" rosters that play exhibition games against teams from around the world. So it's not really even a league at all, it's more so 3 professional AAU teams that will be playing a ton of random exhibition games. Which I guess sounds okay in theory but honestly how good of a product are they even going to be able to put out if that's the model they're using? 

As of right now OT's league has signed a bunch of foreign players, a couple 3/4* recruits, and 3 high profile players in the Thompson twins who are 5* recruits in the 2022 class and Matt Bewley who is the #2 recruit in the 2023 class.

[Sllim Pickens]

14 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Respectfully I have to agree to disagree. ESPN will always push college basketball first and foremost because of the huge TV deals they have with all of the power conferences. They also have the TV rights to the G-League and aired games on ESPN2 but realistically other than the team of top prospects, are people going to be that interested in watching a bunch of fringe NBA role players play against them? Other than Jalen Green the rest of the other HS kids struggled playing against pros and they were getting whooped almost every game. Most of the G-League teams play in small, random cities around the country in tiny arenas that never sell out despite tickets being like $10. 

Overtime's league could potentially create some demand and land them a TV deal because they already have such a huge following on social media and a ton of funding from big named investors. But the league isn't going to be structured like what we see in the G-League or college basketball. They're just signing 30 players that they're going to place on "dynamic" rosters that play exhibition games against teams from around the world. So it's not really even a league at all, it's more so 3 professional AAU teams that will be playing a ton of random exhibition games. Which I guess sounds okay in theory but honestly how good of a product are they even going to be able to put out if that's the model they're using? 

As of right now OT's league has signed a bunch of foreign players, a couple 3/4* recruits, and 3 high profile players in the Thompson twins who are 5* recruits in the 2022 class and Matt Bewley who is the #2 recruit in the 2023 class.

I know ESPN will push college first, but dont think they will miss out on other ideas if they have demand.  As you mentioned it may be more so on ESPN 2 or even NEWS but it will be there.  And if not, other avenues will come in and get it.  It won't be NCAA type agreements but they will have an influx of cash to have their games broadcast, especially as they get bigger names.  If it doesn't garner the attention, then they likely will fold.  I get they have backing but with NCAA NIL, the publicity will be there so kids might not want to give up their college careers for a couple hundred thousand dollars.  Bates will likely sign a shoe deal if he goes to college, which could dwarf anything he would get in the G League or the HS league.  So they will have to have success and get these kids airtime, or it will fail.  I think they will get airtime because as I mentioned, ESPN already has good ratings for HS sports when they show top recruits playing. 

[NYRaider]

29 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Bates will likely sign a shoe deal if he goes to college, which could dwarf anything he would get in the G League or the HS league.  So they will have to have success and get these kids airtime, or it will fail.  I think they will get airtime because as I mentioned, ESPN already has good ratings for HS sports when they show top recruits playing. 

Quote

“So individual players cannot sign their own shoe deals or with any company sponsoring the university.” If they play at a school that Nike is paying to wear its gear, they will wear Nike gear and not get a penny extra for doing so.

They actually can't sign a shoe deal because if they go to a Nike school then sign a Nike shoe deal, it could be viewed as a recruiting tactic. But if they go to a Nike school and signed a shoe deal with Adidas, the team wouldn't let them wear their shoe because they already have huge endorsement deals with brand apparel companies. 

The NLI stuff is a step in the right direction but I don't think that it will be nearly as profitable as people expected. As I mentioned earlier all of the deals that guys have signed so far have been with random start ups or local companies for like $20k.

[Sllim Pickens]

15 hours ago, NYRaider said:

They actually can't sign a shoe deal because if they go to a Nike school then sign a Nike shoe deal, it could be viewed as a recruiting tactic. But if they go to a Nike school and signed a shoe deal with Adidas, the team wouldn't let them wear their shoe because they already have huge endorsement deals with brand apparel companies. 

The NLI stuff is a step in the right direction but I don't think that it will be nearly as profitable as people expected. As I mentioned earlier all of the deals that guys have signed so far have been with random start ups or local companies for like $20k.

Its been less than a month and I am sure the bigger companies are looking at who, when and how to sign deals.  As people have said, they can sign deals with other brands than the school but can't wear them on the court/during televised events.  But they can wear them around campus.  And no doubt Under Armour will be willing to pay some of these top flight basketball recruits big money just to build that relationship.  If Bates was in college right now there is no doubt in my mind you would see him in a Subway commercial or something.  It will be a discounted way for corporate America to get in on kids before they are pro and develop those relationships. 

Also the NIL will change.  This is a first step in the right direction but it will evolve.  Most kids will sign 1-10k deals with local car dealerships but the elites will get a little more national attention.   As they see how it works and where they can and need to adjust, they will.  The NCAA wants to see stars in their sports and will do what they have to to get them there like turning a blind eye to the payments that have been happening for years. 

[NYRaider]

16 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Its been less than a month and I am sure the bigger companies are looking at who, when and how to sign deals. 

Bryce Young (Alabama QB) has already signed $1M in endorsement deals. Master P's son Hercy Miller, a zero star recruit that will be a freshman at Tennessee State this season, just signed a $2M deal with Web Apps America. WAA has 56 likes on Facebook and is handing out $2M endorsement deals, hm...

As the NIL is currently structured it will allow boosters to set up "companies" that pay players instead of just giving them money behind the scenes like they've been doing for decades. 

[NYRaider]

For Duke/Carolina fans the NIL becoming a thing  couldn't have came at a better time as our legendary coaches are moving on and being replaced by inexperienced assistants, Obviously it's not the same being recruited by either school with Roy gone and K entering his final rodeo. But because both programs have a ton of rich boosters that can start "companies" to legally funnel money to players  it should definitely help Scheyer/Davis on the recruiting trail.. 

[Sllim Pickens]

https://sports.yahoo.com/nick-saban-says-alabama-qb-bryce-young-has-signed-nearly-1-m-worth-of-endorsement-deals-already-180220170.html

Saban saying Bryce Young making almost 7 figures already.  Top basketball prospects will easily do better than that.  

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/nick-saban-says-alabama-qb-bryce-young-has-signed-nearly-1-m-worth-of-endorsement-deals-already-180220170.html

Saban saying Bryce Young making almost 7 figures already.  Top basketball prospects will easily do better than that.  

You must not have read my post. The NIL is essentially boosters setting up fake companies to funnel money to players. 

[THE DUKE]

5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

You must not have read my post. The NIL is essentially boosters setting up fake companies to funnel money to players. 

You think these boosters don't have jobs and companies of their own already? NIL is just making what they were likely doing already not a crime.

[NYRaider]

Just now, THE DUKE said:

You think these boosters don't have jobs and companies of their own already? NIL is just making what they were likely doing already not a crime.

Do you think Web Apps of America, a random company that just popped up a couple of months ago on Facebook, is in a position to be handing out $2M endorsement deals? I'm sure a lot of them will use their real companies to do it but there will definitely be a ton of shady ish going on. 

The NIL isn't supposed to be used as a recruiting advantage.

Nick Saban to all the 5* recruits out there: 

Quote

While Saban wouldn't divulge the specifics of the deals Young has signed, Saban said the total compensation is "almost seven figures.""And it's like, the guy hasn't even played yet," Saban said, according to The Athletic. "But that's because of our brand."

[NYRaider]

Emoni Bates is apparently might reclassify and is considering Michigan State, Baylor, Miami, or Oregon which would make him draft eligible next year. He's also considering signing with Overtime's HS league, the G-League Ignite, or signing a contract with an NBL team. 

If he does reclassify and then play in Overtime's league, I'm assuming that he'd still be eligible for the draft since he'd technically have graduated and be a year removed from HS basketball but that's not 100% clear. 

@Sllim Pickens

Edited July 26, 2021 by NYRaider

[Sllim Pickens]

14 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Emoni Bates is apparently might reclassify and is considering Michigan State, Baylor, Miami, or Oregon which would make him draft eligible next year. He's also considering signing with Overtime's HS league, the G-League Ignite, or signing a contract with an NBL team. 

If he does reclassify and then play in Overtime's league, I'm assuming that he'd still be eligible for the draft since he'd technically have graduated and be a year removed from HS basketball but that's not 100% clear. 

@Sllim Pickens

If he is going to reclassify, there is no point in going to the overtime league IMO.  It would be what they need to get off the ground and he could sign a shoe deal but he can do that in the G League too.  He can also make a lot of money and build his brand in college.  Oregon would be a slick move for him to get into that Nike money.  Baylor would not be smart IMO as I think they fall off losing so much this year.  I am guessing he gets paid to play somewhere this year, I don't think he wants to deal with school at any level.