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Who will be the best pure free safety in this class?


brownie man

Best Rangy FS Prospect in 2018?  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Best FS

    • Minkah Fitzpatrick
      9
    • Derwin James
      9
    • Jessie Bates III
      9
    • Justin Reid
      3
    • DeShon Elliot
      5
    • Jordan Whitehead
      1
    • Armani Watts
      1
    • Ronnie Harrison
      0


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My Browns drafted Jabril Peppers last year. We played him out of position at FS because of our lack of defensive back talent. This year he will go back to Strong Safety as long as we get a rangy FS. I need to know what is going to be our best route to get that centerfield-type safety, where to get him, and why he is the one. 

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Just got into the Jesse Bates tape this past weekend.

I like his skill set, but I didn't see him play a whole lot of pure FS in college either. He was in underneath SCF zones (purple zones in Madden) way more than he was in deep half or deep middle zones. He's very rangy, has great length, and has excellent timing. Timing might be a weird way to phrase it, but he baits QB's into seeing wide open WR's and then closes that window in a heartbeat. He's never standing there waiting for the ball. He's flying in underneath like a thief in the night and making those plays. Plus he's pretty damn good against the run for being a skinny guy.

Bates has a great skill set to play FS and seems like a more effortless mover than most of the other names on this list. He's a very good football player and a very good athlete. Heady players with great athletic traits tend to make great NFL players.

 

That being said, I went with Derwin James. I know he's not a pure FS prospect because a lot of teams will want him playing SS, but I think his better fit is actually at FS. It keeps him clean, it utilizes his elite range and lateral speed, it allows him to make splash plays in the passing game, it keeps him out of man coverage for the most part, it's something he's done in college, and he still has the ability to line up 12 yards away from the LOS and still make TFL's. He's a missile that can get to the football faster than any safety I've seen since maybe Sean Taylor. He's not just a fast guy either obviously. He is extremely physical and mean when he arrives at the ball carrier. If a team decides to make him a pure FS instead of playing the SS game, he'll have no issues. He can do either at a high level, but I think most people are aboard the "he's a SS only" bandwagon. This is a dumb bandwagon to be on.

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Derwin James is the best free safety in this draft.   PERIOD.

But onto something else.  Why is everyone trying to make Minkah Fitzpatrick into a FS?  From what I've seen, he's rarely if ever played that position in college.  He played CB (in particular nickel) almost exclusively in college.  And he did it at such a high level that I'm confused as why people want to move him to safety.

I say let Minkah play CB in the NFL.   Nothing I've seen on tape says he can't do it.   I only recently finished studying him and I'm embarrassed that I was not higher on him from the start.  He looks like a spitting image of Rod Woodson from what I've seen.   A guy who started out as an All-Pro corner and then moved to safety later in his career.  I can see Minkah Fitzpatrick following the same path.

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19 minutes ago, VanS said:

Derwin James is the best free safety in this draft.   PERIOD.

But onto something else.  Why is everyone trying to make Minkah Fitzpatrick into a FS?  From what I've seen, he's rarely if ever played that position in college.  He played CB (in particular nickel) almost exclusively in college.  And he did it at such a high level that I'm confused as why people want to move him to safety.

I say let Minkah play CB in the NFL.   Nothing I've seen on tape says he can't do it.   I only recently finished studying him and I'm embarrassed that I was not higher on him from the start.  He looks like a spitting image of Rod Woodson from what I've seen.   A guy who started out as an All-Pro corner and then moved to safety later in his career.  I can see Minkah Fitzpatrick following the same path.

He can't play outside CB. Not athletic enough. But yeah, I don't want to move him away from where he was great in college--the nickel. If I'm drafting Minkah, I'm playing him at SS and any time we run a nickel package, he immediately goes to that NCB spot and we bring in some other slapdyk to play SS. He's very good around the LOS because of his versatility. I don't see any reason to take him in the top 10 and then move him to FS, a position he's never played in his life.

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1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

He can't play outside CB. Not athletic enough.

Really?  What makes you say that?  We'll see how he tests at the combine, but nothing on tape says Minkah Fitzpatrick is "not athletic enough".

Remember Jalen Ramsey also played nickel most of his college career before he was moved outside as a junior and has obviously thrived in the NFL as an outside corner.  I can see Minkah Fitzpatrick doing the same.

Right now I'm moving Minkah Fitzpatrick to my #1 CB spot.  I think he's got the ability to play outside at a high level.

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2 hours ago, VanS said:

Remember Jalen Ramsey also played nickel most of his college career before he was moved outside as a junior and has obviously thrived in the NFL as an outside corner.  I can see Minkah Fitzpatrick doing the same.

Comparing Minkah Fitzpatrick to Jalen Ramsey should seem wrong to you. Ramsey was an elite athlete. Minkah Fitzpatrick is a solid one.

Fitzpatrick doesn't have the twitch to cover #1 receivers. I'd be shocked if the team that drafts him uses him as an outside corner.

I don't think Fitzpatrick is a great athlete. He has elite instincts and is all-around very good and fundamentally sound. But I've seen him get beaten down the field by middling slot receivers. He's not very good in man coverage. If you want to run an off zone scheme, I guess he COULD play outside...but that's not what he's adept at. He's at his best when he can play zone and get in underneath throws. He's at his best playing just outside of the tackle box and scraping over to make tackles. He's at his worst when he has to match speed on passing patterns. He's not terrible at it by any stretch, but he'd be toast trying to cover good #1 receivers. There is literally 0 reason to move him outside to cornerback when his role right now is obviously perfect for what he does.

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3 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

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To the op question I'd say Jordan Whitehead. He's like Jessie Bates but can actually tackle.

Jessie Bates can tackle just fine. He has the frame of an 8 year old, but he has no problems coming downhill and making tackles. He has the willingness and the ability to do this. Not sure why you think he's not a good tackler.

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1 minute ago, BleedTheClock said:

Comparing Minkah Fitzpatrick to Jalen Ramsey should seem wrong to you. Ramsey was an elite athlete. Minkah Fitzpatrick is a solid one.

Fitzpatrick doesn't have the twitch to cover #1 receivers. I'd be shocked if the team that drafts him uses him as an outside corner.

I don't think Fitzpatrick is a great athlete. He has elite instincts and is all-around very good and fundamentally sound. But I've seen him get beaten down the field by middling slot receivers. He's not very good in man coverage. If you want to run an off zone scheme, I guess he COULD play outside...but that's not what he's adept at. He's at his best when he can play zone and get in underneath throws. He's at his best playing just outside of the tackle box and scraping over to make tackles. He's at his worst when he has to match speed on passing patterns. He's not terrible at it by any stretch, but he'd be toast trying to cover good #1 receivers. There is literally 0 reason to move him outside to cornerback when his role right now is obviously perfect for what he does.

So if Minkah runs 4.49 or faster and jumps 37+ inches at the combine next week will you still stand by this assessment?

I only ask this because you called Jalen Ramsey an "elite" athlete and he ran 4.41 and jumped 41 inches at the combine 2 years ago.  I don't expect Minkah to match those numbers exactly.  But I do think he'll be in the same ballpark.  I would expect him to run in the mid to high 4.4s in the 40 and jump 37+ inches in the vertical.  If he does put up those type of combine numbers, then I'm assuming you will admit that he's better than simply a "solid" athlete.  Those are the type of athletic testing numbers that a "great" athlete puts up not a "solid" one.

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Just now, VanS said:

So if Minkah runs 4.49 or faster and jumps 37+ inches at the combine next week will you still stand by this assessment?

I only ask this because you called Jalen Ramsey an "elite" athlete and he ran 4.41 and jumped 41 inches at the combine 2 years ago.  I don't expect Minkah to match those numbers exactly.  But I do think he'll be in the same ballpark.  I would expect him to run in the mid to high 4.4s in the 40 and jump 37+ inches in the vertical.  If he does put up those type of combine numbers, then I'm assuming you will admit that he's better than simply a "solid" athlete.  Those are the type of athletic testing numbers that a "great" athlete puts up not a "solid" one.

I doubt he puts up those numbers. It didn't match what I saw on tape from Minkah, but I guess we'll see.

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