Combine Press Conference Discussion

[BStanRamFan]

I wanted to start a thread to discuss quotes that were pulled from McVay and Snead at the Combine. A few highlights I read from today that were interesting:

 

- Marcus Peters trade was made independent of Trumaine Johnson. McVay would like to resign Tru if possible although he will have a lot of suitors.

-Excited about Gerald Everett and Josh Reynolds in Year 2.

-Lamarcus Joyner resigning is huge priority. (possibly #1 priority and will look to secure long term vs franchise).

-Regarding bringing Sammy Watkins back, "If we can make it work, that's definitely something we want to do". Possible franchise tag if Joyner get's signed long term?

-Looking to build interior O-line depth through draft (Center?)

[LARams91]

I could definitely see a 3rd and possibly 4th round pick used for interior olinemen. A lot of good values in that range for guys who could start year 2 for us.

[stl4life07]

If Tru can get a team friendly deal I’d love to bring him back. I think Joyner is a no brainer and even though it’s not popular to some, I’d like to bring back Watkins. I want to see what he does in year 2 in the offense while having a full offseason with the Rams. Plus I don’t personally like giving up a 2nd round pick only to see Watkins not be retained unless the price is really high.

 

[LARams91]

15 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

If Tru can get a team friendly deal I’d love to bring him back. I think Joyner is a no brainer and even though it’s not popular to some, I’d like to bring back Watkins. I want to see what he does in year 2 in the offense while having a full offseason with the Rams. Plus I don’t personally like giving up a 2nd round pick only to see Watkins not be retained unless the price is really high.

 

While I understand not wanting to lose a 2nd, we would get a comp pick for him next year so it wouldn't be AS bad...I just fear only wanting to sign him due to the second round pick as opposed to a proper valuation based upon future production and $$.

[stl4life07]

2 hours ago, LARams91 said:

While I understand not wanting to lose a 2nd, we would get a comp pick for him next year so it wouldn't be AS bad...I just fear only wanting to sign him due to the second round pick as opposed to a proper valuation based upon future production and $$.

Well if the price gets out of hand then I can understand not getting into a bidding war. I do believe the Rams traded for Watkins as a long term guy not just a rental. Watkins wants to be with the Rams from everything I’ve heard from him. He loves LA, he even said in a comment when he first was traded to the Rams that it’s not about the money that he already has plenty of money. He has bought into the Rams culture. I think both him and the Rams want to work things out for him to stay with the Rams. Things can change obviously but it will be interesting to see if the Rams give Joyner a long term deal and tag Watkins to make sure he doesn’t hit the market for all those WR needy teams to bid high on him. 

[LARams91]

13 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

Well if the price gets out of hand then I can understand not getting into a bidding war. I do believe the Rams traded for Watkins as a long term guy not just a rental. Watkins wants to be with the Rams from everything I’ve heard from him. He loves LA, he even said in a comment when he first was traded to the Rams that it’s not about the money that he already has plenty of money. He has bought into the Rams culture. I think both him and the Rams want to work things out for him to stay with the Rams. Things can change obviously but it will be interesting to see if the Rams give Joyner a long term deal and tag Watkins to make sure he doesn’t hit the market for all those WR needy teams to bid high on him. 

Im hopeful we get him on a good deal then!

[Flatlyner]

At least tag and trade him if letting him go, a la the Dolphins.  I think we could get a 3rd back for him.

[Dr LBC]

16 hours ago, LARams91 said:

While I understand not wanting to lose a 2nd, we would get a comp pick for him next year so it wouldn't be AS bad...I just fear only wanting to sign him due to the second round pick as opposed to a proper valuation based upon future production and $$.

I think we've seen, especially since Fisher leering over his shoulder was removed, Snead is definitely one to play it a bit more fast and loose with the draft picks (which isn't that surprising considering the front office he originally came from - Atlanta).  Like I said in another thread, fans in general tend to over-value draft picks.  Ultimately (but especially with what we shelled out to move up and get him) if sacrificing another 2nd round pick to rent Watkins for one year was the price to pay to ensure that Goff had the receivers necessary to ensure a smooth transition into McVay's scheme and establish his franchise QB bonafides, then that's a pick well-spent, particularly if they underestimated (possible, but not by too much considering the contract they gave him) what Woods would be capable of outlaying.

[jrry32]

34 minutes ago, The LBC said:

I think we've seen, especially since Fisher leering over his shoulder was removed, Snead is definitely one to play it a bit more fast and loose with the draft picks (which isn't that surprising considering the front office he originally came from - Atlanta).  Like I said in another thread, fans in general tend to over-value draft picks.  Ultimately (but especially with what we shelled out to move up and get him) if sacrificing another 2nd round pick to rent Watkins for one year was the price to pay to ensure that Goff had the receivers necessary to ensure a smooth transition into McVay's scheme and establish his franchise QB bonafides, then that's a pick well-spent, particularly if they underestimated (possible, but not by too much considering the contract they gave him) what Woods would be capable of outlaying.

Yep, Kupp and Woods weren't sure things before the season. But imo, both are capable of posting 1000+ yard seasons next year. If Sammy walks, I think we'll be fine. I don't think it'll be that difficult to fill a deep threat role. But I would love for Sammy to stay. He's just going to have to pass on more money if he wants to stay.

[LARams91]

7 hours ago, The LBC said:

I think we've seen, especially since Fisher leering over his shoulder was removed, Snead is definitely one to play it a bit more fast and loose with the draft picks (which isn't that surprising considering the front office he originally came from - Atlanta).  Like I said in another thread, fans in general tend to over-value draft picks.  Ultimately (but especially with what we shelled out to move up and get him) if sacrificing another 2nd round pick to rent Watkins for one year was the price to pay to ensure that Goff had the receivers necessary to ensure a smooth transition into McVay's scheme and establish his franchise QB bonafides, then that's a pick well-spent, particularly if they underestimated (possible, but not by too much considering the contract they gave him) what Woods would be capable of outlaying.

Totally agree, I just meant I see people saying we need to resign him because we gave up a 2nd round pick. I don't agree with that logic. Totally agree that draft picks can be overvalued by fans.

[stl4life07]

My thing is with Watkins is I want to see how he does in year 2 in McVay offense. He didn’t have a full offseason with the Rams and it’s hard already for a WR to change teams and have success year 1 but to do it after camp starts makes it even harder.

Alshon Jeffery 120 targets 57 catches 789yds 9tds. That’s not impressive in his first season with the Eagles. Besides the targets he did slightly better than he did with the Bears the past two seasons prior and the Eagles had the potential MVP in Wentz before he got hurt towards the end of the season.

Brandin Cooks 114 targets 65 catches 1082yds 7tds. All those numbers across the board was down for him since he left the Saints and he played with the MVP Brady. 

Terrell Pryor was thought to have a better season playing with Cousins because both had something to prove. Cousins had to prove he is worth the money he is seeking and Pryor was on a 1yr deal trying to prove he is worth a big contract too. To say Pryor failed would be nice. It felt like he wasn’t on the team he was so bad.

I could go on and on to talk about Maclin struggling with the Ravens, Marshall struggles with the Giants, Decker struggles with the Titans, Matthews struggles with the Bills. I know he was traded in season but Benjamin struggles with the Bills. Like besides Benjamin and Matthews, all those other WRs had OTAs, minicamps, and full training camps with their teams and still had subpar seasons by their standards. So I’m in the mindset of seeing what Watkins can do year 2 where he is finally settled in LA. I remember an interview where he stated he hasn’t even found a real place to live yet in LA. So like once he gets fully settled in LA, get more confidence in the plays where he won’t make mental mistakes, fully work with Goff because during the season you don’t have time to do that. Even McVay installing an offense to feature Watkins more happens during the offseason. I think Watkins will have the season we all expect from him. That’s all I’m saying as to why I want the Rams to keep him.

[stl4life07]

I’ll also add that people keep saying the Rams can replace Watkins production last season with another WR. Sure. Why? Because again last season Watkins was learning a new offense and on a new team. Overall not just anyone can replace Watkins. Only Hilton has a higher yards per catch average since coming into the league. That’s like when someone say Peters isn’t good just look at last season. Peters had his worst and still was a top 3 cornerback in 2017. His best season he was a 1st team All-Pro. Watkins talent makes him irreplaceable unless you are talking about guys like Brown or OBJ or Julio. I don’t question if Watkins production can match his talent that will happen. The only thing I questioned was his health and he answered it by staying healthy last season. Moving forward we don’t have to worry about the nagging foot problems he had in Buffalo because he had that 2nd foot surgery to fix it. I think that was the main reason Buffalo traded him. But I’m confident in him staying healthy because again the only injury he has had in his NFL career was with the foot before that 2nd surgery. Now it’s a non issue. That’s just how I feel.

[JonStark]

I'm with you @stl4life07. I think Watkins is an ELITE talent who has dealt with injuries most of his career and a new system last year. A Sammy Watkins who is healthy with a full season and offseason under his belt in our offense is 100% someone I want to have for the future.

I just hope we lock him up before FA starts, because someone will throw more money at him than even I want to.

[Dr LBC]

2 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

I’ll also add that people keep saying the Rams can replace Watkins production last season with another WR. Sure. Why? Because again last season Watkins was learning a new offense and on a new team. Overall not just anyone can replace Watkins. Only Hilton has a higher yards per catch average since coming into the league. That’s like when someone say Peters isn’t good just look at last season. Peters had his worst and still was a top 3 cornerback in 2017. His best season he was a 1st team All-Pro. Watkins talent makes him irreplaceable unless you are talking about guys like Brown or OBJ or Julio. I don’t question if Watkins production can match his talent that will happen. The only thing I questioned was his health and he answered it by staying healthy last season. Moving forward we don’t have to worry about the nagging foot problems he had in Buffalo because he had that 2nd foot surgery to fix it. I think that was the main reason Buffalo traded him. But I’m confident in him staying healthy because again the only injury he has had in his NFL career was with the foot before that 2nd surgery. Now it’s a non issue. That’s just how I feel.

I think the point is that even with Watkins' middling production last season this was one of the most prolific offenses in the league - if not THE most prolific for the majority of weeks.  The best comparison I can make is that this is akin to the Pats' offensive system (which is more run-centric than people want to give it credit for).  Yes, the system bears some responsibility for the productivity of the players, but that's not a bad thing unless you get hung up on getting in measuring contests about the quality of your position player (QB/WR/etc) and someone's trying to combat you with the "system ___" argument.

If you look at McVay's system it's highly similar to the version of WCO that Belichick/McDaniels deploy because it doesn't require the traditional prototype WR1.  Now that doesn't mean if you get your hands on one you just use them like tissues, but it gives you the flexibility (QB-providing) to not have to sweat overpaying to keep that guy on the roster because, within the system, a replacement player may not be as prolific or dynamic, but he can sure as heck be as effective.

Also, I'm not medical expert, but I've had my share of lower-body surgeries for sports injuries, and just about any trauma injury that had to be repaired is never a case of "you don't have to worry about it moving forward."  There's a screw in the bone holding that Jones fracture in place to allow it to knit, but the knitting occurred around the screw not through the space where the screw occupies.  And feet take a lot of trauma - mercifully we're not playing on turf any longer (and I don't think playing on November-January frozen ground in Buffalo helped his feet much either), but when a screw was involved there's always a heightened potential for re-injury... and let me tell from experience, woe be to anyone who takes the kind of trauma that bends that screw enough to where the doc decides it needs to be removed and replaced, because that sidelines you for an even longer period of time (it effectively ended my college career).

Sammy is worth keeping provided we get him at the right price.  But his position in our system, relative to what we already have on the roster, is not so essential that having a dynamic performer there merits sacrificing quality (or the ability to re-sign quality) at other more-essential spots on the team.

[stl4life07]

1 hour ago, The LBC said:

I think the point is that even with Watkins' middling production last season this was one of the most prolific offenses in the league - if not THE most prolific for the majority of weeks.  The best comparison I can make is that this is akin to the Pats' offensive system (which is more run-centric than people want to give it credit for).  Yes, the system bears some responsibility for the productivity of the players, but that's not a bad thing unless you get hung up on getting in measuring contests about the quality of your position player (QB/WR/etc) and someone's trying to combat you with the "system ___" argument.

If you look at McVay's system it's highly similar to the version of WCO that Belichick/McDaniels deploy because it doesn't require the traditional prototype WR1.  Now that doesn't mean if you get your hands on one you just use them like tissues, but it gives you the flexibility (QB-providing) to not have to sweat overpaying to keep that guy on the roster because, within the system, a replacement player may not be as prolific or dynamic, but he can sure as heck be as effective.

Also, I'm not medical expert, but I've had my share of lower-body surgeries for sports injuries, and just about any trauma injury that had to be repaired is never a case of "you don't have to worry about it moving forward."  There's a screw in the bone holding that Jones fracture in place to allow it to knit, but the knitting occurred around the screw not through the space where the screw occupies.  And feet take a lot of trauma - mercifully we're not playing on turf any longer (and I don't think playing on November-January frozen ground in Buffalo helped his feet much either), but when a screw was involved there's always a heightened potential for re-injury... and let me tell from experience, woe be to anyone who takes the kind of trauma that bends that screw enough to where the doc decides it needs to be removed and replaced, because that sidelines you for an even longer period of time (it effectively ended my college career).

Sammy is worth keeping provided we get him at the right price.  But his position in our system, relative to what we already have on the roster, is not so essential that having a dynamic performer there merits sacrificing quality (or the ability to re-sign quality) at other more-essential spots on the team.

Ok so can we agree that Watkins plays the “DeSean Jackson” role in McVay offense? In Washington with McVay as OC, DeSean had no more than 100 targets 56 catches and 6tds. What made DeSean special was his yards per catch which was usually between 17.6 and 20.9 in this 3 seasons with McVay. Well Watkins is the king of yards per catch. Again only Hilton has the best yards per catch average than Watkins since coming into the league. I watched a lot of Rams games and so did you, Goff missed Watkins barely on plenty of targets. That can be corrected with gaining more chemistry over the offseason and getting more comfortable in the offense. Another quality DeSean had was everyone knew and respected him as a deep ball threat. Players, coaches, and teams know and respect Watkins in that same way. So while again I get why some think the Rams can get the production Watkins gave them last season with almost any other receiver, I think people are under selling Watkins talent and it’s not just the offensive system. Like Watkins was a few deep ball misses from having the type of season that changes people minds on the outlook of last season. No different than even with DeSean Jackson in Tampa Bay. He struggled too with his new team but I saw games where Winston barely missed him on deep balls. Had they connected on a few of them the outlook of his season would’ve been different. Like Goff never played with the type of WR like Watkins and Watkins never played in an offense like McVay or a QB like Goff. It’s an adjustment on all parties. I’d just like to see what year 2 brings with a full offseason together where solid chemistry can be developed and an offense can be installed for what Watkins does best. You see the chemistry Goff had with Woods and Kupp. Why? Because he had OTAs, minicamp, and training camp to develop that chemistry. He didn’t with Watkins. I just would like to see him have that opportunity. I believe in Watkins to be more than his production last season when he changed teams literally weeks before the regular season started.