Broncofan Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: I don't think that we will go into the season with our three QBs being Lynch, Kelly and a rookie we draft in the top of the first round, that's too much youth. If we don't get Cousins, I still think we will sign a veteran, hopefully a Josh McCown / Ryan Fitzpatrick type short-term backup. Such an scenario would lead to Lynch and Kelly battling for a roster spot. We couldn't if Elway was serious about trying to win in 2018....the *only* guy I'd think about it would be Rosen. And even then, I'd have a vet in TC - I meant what I said before when I said we should get the very last vet available in the Bradford/Teddy/McCown (and Taylor if he's there with a BUF release), and if several are unsigned - after the draft. And I'd have a non-guaranteed deal with a little in roster bonuses - so if we got Rosen/Darnold, and they looked amazing and ready in TC - we'd be willing to cut the vet to save $. Again, even if they looked amazing, I'd expect them to struggle, and we'd be looking to 2019+...but I also agree we're better served to let a Rosen/Darnold/Mayfield start from Day 1 (although Mayfield I really think Elway has as #4 on his list). Allen's the one guy you probably have to keep a vet handy for, there's a real risk he could need to be replaced in-game if he has one of those ugly games you see with guys whose biggest Q mark is accuracy. So yes, I think we likely get a vet for sure - if we wait until the last 2-3 in that tier are available, we could get them on a deal where we don't have to guarantee the $ season-long, though. The more likely scenario if we go rookie 1.5 is we have rookie & 1-year vet - which is why I think Kelly vs. Lynch is a OTA and TC scenario to look for. As long as he's healthy my money's on Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Interesting article here from CBS Sports ranking the QBs in the draft on each of the different factors that contribute to success. They rank the six QBs based on short/intermediate accuracy, processing, pocket movement, decision-making, passing under pressure, deep accuracy, arm strength and mobility. They then rank each based on three offensive schemes - West Coach, Air Coryell and Spread/RPO; why they list WCO and Air Coryell as separate offenses, when both are philosophically very similar, and don't list the Ehardt/Perkins offense on which the McDaniels/McCoy/Gase offenses are based, makes little sense to me, but I digress. I'd recommend reading the whole thing as it's well worth your time, and I disagree on some rankings, but they are somewhat subjective. However, if we were assign equal weight to each of the eight rankings categories and sum the total (1 points for first, 2 points for second .... 6 for sixth), the resulting rankings are as follows (the lower the number the better): Mason Rudolph (21) Baker Mayfield (22) Lamar Jackson (25) Josh Rosen (26) Sam Darnold (35) Josh Allen (39) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 37 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Interesting article here from CBS Sports ranking the QBs in the draft on each of the different factors that contribute to success. They rank the six QBs based on short/intermediate accuracy, processing, pocket movement, decision-making, passing under pressure, deep accuracy, arm strength and mobility. They then rank each based on three offensive schemes - West Coach, Air Coryell and Spread/RPO; why they list WCO and Air Coryell as separate offenses, when both are philosophically very similar, and don't list the Ehardt/Perkins offense on which the McDaniels/McCoy/Gase offenses are based, makes little sense to me, but I digress. I'd recommend reading the whole thing as it's well worth your time, and I disagree on some rankings, but they are somewhat subjective. However, if we were assign equal weight to each of the eight rankings categories and sum the total (1 points for first, 2 points for second .... 6 for sixth), the resulting rankings are as follows (the lower the number the better): Mason Rudolph (21) Baker Mayfield (22) Lamar Jackson (25) Josh Rosen (26) Sam Darnold (35) Josh Allen (39) I’m not saying he’s wrong, but the guy at CBS sports has been on Rudolph since day 1 of the season. I think at 1 point he had Rudolph as the best player in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 39 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Interesting article here from CBS Sports ranking the QBs in the draft on each of the different factors that contribute to success. They rank the six QBs based on short/intermediate accuracy, processing, pocket movement, decision-making, passing under pressure, deep accuracy, arm strength and mobility. They then rank each based on three offensive schemes - West Coach, Air Coryell and Spread/RPO; why they list WCO and Air Coryell as separate offenses, when both are philosophically very similar, and don't list the Ehardt/Perkins offense on which the McDaniels/McCoy/Gase offenses are based, makes little sense to me, but I digress. I'd recommend reading the whole thing as it's well worth your time, and I disagree on some rankings, but they are somewhat subjective. However, if we were assign equal weight to each of the eight rankings categories and sum the total (1 points for first, 2 points for second .... 6 for sixth), the resulting rankings are as follows (the lower the number the better): Mason Rudolph (21) Baker Mayfield (22) Lamar Jackson (25) Josh Rosen (26) Sam Darnold (35) Josh Allen (39) That's what scares me about this QB class. The pro's can't even decide on a clear cut one, two or three. One analyst was pretty candid. He said it's not because they're all that good, it's because they're all that mediocre, each one having serious flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, AKRNA said: That's what scares me about this QB class. The pro's can't even decide on a clear cut one, two or three. One analyst was pretty candid. He said it's not because they're all that good, it's because they're all that mediocre, each one having serious flaws. I’ve also read the opposite of this from Mike Mayock (who almost yearly teams are trying to get into their front offices) that this class has just been picked apart because they’ve been getting hyped for so long. In his opinion the QB class is every bit as good as people thought coming into the season and people are nitpicking trying to expose issues that aren’t nearly as concerning as made out to be. Especially in the case of Darnold and Rosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, germ-x said: I’ve also read the opposite of this from Mike Mayock (who almost yearly teams are trying to get into their front offices) that this class has just been picked apart because they’ve been getting hyped for so long. In his opinion the QB class is every bit as good as people thought coming into the season and people are nitpicking trying to expose issues that aren’t nearly as concerning as made out to be. Especially in the case of Darnold and Rosen. I think this is undoubtedly the case, and honestly I was going to say this myself. Rosen has been hyped as a prospect for a long time. The fact that we're talking about the hat he wore on a golf course as a "red flag" shows how overblown this all is. Darnold just last year was hyped based on his play. This year, his play was worse (but still plenty solid), and that has been a "red flag." Lamar Jackson was a Heisman winner who has a lot to like about his game. Same with Mayfield. Allen is the H/W/S prototypical dream prospect. This is what happens when there's a lot to pick from. You could reasonably make the case, at least, that Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield/Allen are the best QBs because they all have things to like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bMiller031 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 How would you all rank the options? Mine would be: Darnold Rosen Mayfield Cousins @ 30m/yr Bridgewater on prove-it deal Josh Allen Keenum @ 18m/yr Rudolph Jackson Vet FA not mentioned ***50 feet of horse crap ******* 11. Some combination of Chad Kelly, Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch, or Trevor Siemian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 So, I don't pay much attention to the social issues, I do pay attention to possible on-field problems. Like Rosen, often described as the best pure passer in the bunch. Also has a continuing injury history going back to HS, has a somewhat frail build, and has terrible pocket mobility. Behind our OL in our offense? Or Darnold. Checks a lot of boxes, lots of guys like him. Of course they also mention he tends to panic a bit, strings bad plays together and is a TO machine. Mayfield, great competitor, very accurate and mobile. He's just shorter than they like and comes from a spread offense. Neither translate well to the NFL. Anyway, the list goes on, some will make it, some will fail. All have large red checkmarks on them. Is that really what you do with the 5th pick in the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1. Cousins 2. Rosen at 5 3. Darnold 4. Mayfield 5. Jackson 3, 4, and 5 are all pretty damn close. Cousins and Rosen are my 1 and 2 easily. Pretty much given up on Cousins and Jackson though Not interested in Allen or Keenum. Don't know anything about Rudolph. I think a stop gap guy like Tyrod is highly unlikely and I think there is almost a 0% chance Teddy gets brought in as a starter or starter competition - even though I am a big fan. At least pre-injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Re: CBS article, differing opinions are always welcome - just the methodology is very opinion-based, and the use of accumulating #'s is very suspect in ranking anyone - it assumes an equal weight to each spot in the ranks (which are subjective), and that each category is equally important. It's more important if a guy isn't good at an area, whether that area is fixable, or it's not as important. Things like who's best in a spread O doesn't necessarily matter if the team isn't going to be a spread (or Air Coryell, or WCO). It's a nice piece for discussion, but it's not a great rank tool to then accumulate standings like points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Interesting article here from CBS Sports ranking the QBs in the draft on each of the different factors that contribute to success. They rank the six QBs based on short/intermediate accuracy, processing, pocket movement, decision-making, passing under pressure, deep accuracy, arm strength and mobility. They then rank each based on three offensive schemes - West Coach, Air Coryell and Spread/RPO; why they list WCO and Air Coryell as separate offenses, when both are philosophically very similar, and don't list the Ehardt/Perkins offense on which the McDaniels/McCoy/Gase offenses are based, makes little sense to me, but I digress. I'd recommend reading the whole thing as it's well worth your time, and I disagree on some rankings, but they are somewhat subjective. However, if we were assign equal weight to each of the eight rankings categories and sum the total (1 points for first, 2 points for second .... 6 for sixth), the resulting rankings are as follows (the lower the number the better): Mason Rudolph (21) Baker Mayfield (22) Lamar Jackson (25) Josh Rosen (26) Sam Darnold (35) Josh Allen (39) I thought Darnold fit the west coast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1) Rosen 2) Mayfield tie 3) Allen tie 4) Lamar Jackson 5) Sam Darnold 6) Mike White 7) Kurk Benkurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Before ppl think this Talib trade is intended for us to increase our bid for Cousins - keep in mind Cousins has repeatedly stated he wants to go to a contender. While trading Talib was always the way we could work to fit Cousins into our cap, the reality is that from the outside, this will take the lustre off our No-Fly D. He would absolutely insane to think MIN and DEN are even on the same plane of contention now. Just please don't waste the $ spent on a 18-20M AAV offer to Keenum. Save it for a cheaper vet if you must, go rookie at 1.5 please (and I'll keep praying it's Darnold/Rosen lol - before all the Mayfield guys protest, just don't think Elway sees him in the top 3, trying to be realistic as to how he operates). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Broncofan said: Before ppl think this Talib trade is intended for us to increase our bid for Cousins - keep in mind Cousins has repeatedly stated he wants to go to a contender. While trading Talib was always the way we could work to fit Cousins into our cap, the reality is that from the outside, this will take the lustre off our No-Fly D. He would absolutely insane to think MIN and DEN are even on the same plane of contention now. Just please don't waste the $ spent on a 18-20M AAV offer to Keenum. Save it for a cheaper vet if you must, go rookie at 1.5 please (and I'll keep praying it's Darnold/Rosen lol - before all the Mayfield guys protest, just don't think Elway sees him in the top 3, trying to be realistic as to how he operates). I am loving where we are sitting. Instead of using future picks to move up to 3. Rosen might fall or Mayfield. Then we can grab him at 5. Trade a third this year and second next year to move up for hernandez. We can go so many ways in rounds 2 and 3 just fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Considering free agents as well: 1. Kirk Cousins 2. Josh Rosen 3. Sam Darnold 4. Baker Mayfield 5. Josh Allen 6. Tyrod Taylor 7. Mason Rudolph 8. Lamar Jackson 9. Case Keenum 10. Josh McCown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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