Broncos QB Discussion Thread

[thebestever6]

2 hours ago, germ-x said:

By no means, don’t get me wrong here, especially @AKRNA, am I saying the OL useless.  Or that Denver should never address the OL.  What I’m saying, is it isn’t feasible in today’s NFL to constantly have a top 10 OL.  Financially and draft capital wise it just can’t be done over the long haul.  Same with a defense.  Denver’s won’t always be top 5 in the league, again, just isn’t realistic over the long haul.

The one position a franchise is capable of locking in for 15 years is QB.  It should be #1 priority and over the course of those 15 years trying to assemble an OL or a defense that can put a team over the top and potentially SB champions. Doing it the other way around (using money/picks to make a good OL/defense) and crossing your fingers that a journeyman QB can come in and do enough to make one a SB winner works 10% of the time.

Its happened the Ravens, Buccaneers, and to an extent the Eagles (even though before injury they had the potential MVP at QB), in this millennium.  

I guess one could try it.  Maybe Denver signs Solder (which would be as extreme an overpay as Cousins) and drafts Nelson at #5 (which I wouldn’t have an issue with) and then bring in a Keenum at QB and win it all, but I wouldn’t cross my fingers and Denver would still be sitting with a revolving door at QB.  Revolving doors at QB typically don’t equal long term success.  A revolving door along a few positions at OL doesn’t typically make a huge difference in wins/losses.

I would love to have an oline it really is a chicken or the egg approach. I'm taking this year out because the eagles had the best offseason I've seen in my lifetime. But, the 2013 year also had a common denominator the elite oline where Foles threw for 27tds and 2 ints. So are guys like foles the common denominator or the line?

The line does play a huge role.  I mean there's a reason Foles looks as cool as a cucumber on paper.

If I had to grade my priorities to build a championship team it would go as follows.

Rb is bottom of the list with kicker and punter. Honestly you can find talent in any round and have a committee approach. 

Franchise qb is 1. Peyton masked our below average oline. 

Pass rusher ala von miller, Mack, Donald, Bosa. I prefer a pair but the second guy isn't necessary to get top 5.

Then it's the oline left tackle is number 1. Center number 2 but centers and guards can be found later. Right tackle is getting harder to find point blank.

 

[thebestever6]

If we could get a Mike White in the 4th round and get a line in front of him, another rb, and tight end. Wed have a tremendous offense.

 

The most pro ready qb in this draft imo. I'm mad we didn't interview him.

[broncos67]

8 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

If we could get a Mike White in the 4th round and get a line in front of him, another rb, and tight end. Wed have a tremendous offense.

 

The most pro ready qb in this draft imo. I'm mad we didn't interview him.

We did meet with him. MHR has a tracker of this stuff- apparently we met with him at the Senior Bowl.

[thebestever6]

37 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

We did meet with him. MHR has a tracker of this stuff- apparently we met with him at the Senior Bowl.

Cool really like him if we don't go qb Round 1.

[broncos67]

Troy Renck on record saying Denver now likes Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield quite a bit. Good to see Elway going back to the well of failed QB strategies with Allen. Elway's biggest problem is his inability to see past gaudy physical attributes in a QB. Osweiler, Lynch, now potentially Allen. The one benefit of Allen is that he does have experience in a more pro-style offense.

I'm actually starting to warm on Mayfield. I still think he comes with a TON of questions, but I will say, I was very pleasantly surprised with his combine performance, specifically some of his intermediate throws and the velocity he was getting on deep outs. That was something I had serious concerns about and he showed quite well. I do think drafting Mayfield means he needs to sit a full year. His complete and utter inexperience under center will be incredibly limiting for this team Day 1.

[thebestever6]

2 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Troy Renck on record saying Denver now likes Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield quite a bit. Good to see Elway going back to the well of failed QB strategies with Allen. Elway's biggest problem is his inability to see past gaudy physical attributes in a QB. Osweiler, Lynch, now potentially Allen. The one benefit of Allen is that he does have experience in a more pro-style offense.

I'm actually starting to warm on Mayfield. I still think he comes with a TON of questions, but I will say, I was very pleasantly surprised with his combine performance, specifically some of his intermediate throws and the velocity he was getting on deep outs. That was something I had serious concerns about and he showed quite well. I do think drafting Mayfield means he needs to sit a full year. His complete and utter inexperience under center will be incredibly limiting for this team Day 1.

Mayfield I'm torn on because I think he can read a d, look defenders off. Year 1 I think if we run mostly from the spread, and rpos he will be fine.  His  drops at the combine looked fluid just slow. That's  probably because he didn't want to make a mistake. 

Onto Allen I think it's safe to say there's  more to him than being a physical Marvel. I think he may be qb1 though. 

[bMiller031]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

 Onto Allen I think it's safe to say there's  more to him than being a physical Marvel. I think he may be qb1 though. 

Why is that safe to say?

From my assessment, him being a physical marvel is the ONLY pro on the pros and cons list-- that's why he's such a gamble. Otherwise, given how dominant he is physically, why isn't he the unanimous sure-fire #1 QB in this draft?

[thebestever6]

38 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Why is that safe to say?

From my assessment, him being a physical marvel is the ONLY pro on the pros and cons list-- that's why he's such a gamble. Otherwise, given how dominant he is physically, why isn't he the unanimous sure-fire #1 QB in this draft?

No accuracy is his only weakness. The guy works at it. Hes a high character guy . His coach is going out of his way to talk to every NFL team who inquires about him. I don't think every coach does that. I think if we're  doing a spectrum. If Paxton and Jamarcus Russell and Vince Young on one end as far as character and work ethic  i think Allen is at the other.

And I never said unanimous. I'm  just saying I think he's higher on lists than people think. If Hue Jackson was Clevelands gm he'd want Darnold but he's  not pulling the trigger. I also think Cleveland and their owner think picking Allen is a chance to right the wrong of passing on Wentz.

I think Allen is a scary prospect that is worth the gamble. Guy looks like Arnold in the terminator movie. Has like no eyebrows he just is scary.

[broncos67]

5 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

No accuracy is his only weakness. The guy works at it. Hes a high character guy . His coach is going out of his way to talk to every NFL team who inquires about him. I don't think every coach does that. I think if we're  doing a spectrum. If Paxton and Jamarcus Russell and Vince Young on one end as far as character and work ethic  i think Allen is at the other.

And I never said unanimous. I'm  just saying I think he's higher on lists than people think. If Hue Jackson was Clevelands gm he'd want Darnold but he's  not pulling the trigger. I also think Cleveland and their owner think picking Allen is a chance to right the wrong of passing on Wentz.

I think Allen is a scary prospect that is worth the gamble. Guy looks like Arnold in the terminator movie. Has like no eyebrows he just is scary.

Accuracy in the NFL is a major weakness. It's the one statistic that portends how effective a player will be at that position. A prospect with his accuracy level is incredibly unlikely to be a competent NFL starter. You cannot "work on" accuracy. He's a high character guy, seems to be a leader, has a rifle, but what he doesn't have is anticipation and touch. That's going to be a huge issue. Guys who rely on their arm instead of their mind tend to fail. It's been said often about Allen, but he tries to make up for his weaknesses in anticipation with his arm. That might work in the Mountain West against subpar competition, but it won't work in the NFL. Allen's abysmal numbers against any sort of talented collegiate program should raise many flags.

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, broncos67 said:

Accuracy in the NFL is a major weakness. It's the one statistic that portends how effective a player will be at that position. A prospect with his accuracy level is incredibly unlikely to be a competent NFL starter. You cannot "work on" accuracy. He's a high character guy, seems to be a leader, has a rifle, but what he doesn't have is anticipation and touch. That's going to be a huge issue. Guys who rely on their arm instead of their mind tend to fail. It's been said often about Allen, but he tries to make up for his weaknesses in anticipation with his arm. That might work in the Mountain West against subpar competition, but it won't work in the NFL. Allen's abysmal numbers against any sort of talented collegiate program should raise many flags.

I think his feet help me with his accuracy they looked improved in indy.  The rest I rely on the white board, our coaches have worked with him. He looked improved in the senior bowl so they know. Also I want at least a 25 on the wonderlic that is a baseline to win a superbowl.

I'm  saying if he checked those boxes hes the number one guy on our board. Along with Keenum. 

[broncos67]

1 minute ago, thebestever6 said:

I think his feet help me with his accuracy they looked improved in indy.  The rest I rely on the white board, our coaches have worked with him. He looked improved in the senior bowl so they know. Also I want at least a 25 on the wonderlic that is a baseline to win a superbowl.

I'm  saying if he checked those boxes hes the number one guy on our board. Along with Keenum. 

I'm not denying he might be #1 on our board, but I'm saying it's most likely a result of his physical stature and tools, not his game performance. The combine is one area that tells you nothing about accuracy. If you're not accurate throwing to guys in shorts in scripted drills with no defenders, that's a huge issue in and of itself. I'm not denying Allen's obvious physical skills, but there's more to a QB than that. Rosen is quite literally the ideal prospect for us at this stage. He could start now, he has experience, he throws the ball well and with anticipation to all fields. His concerns are his frame, and that he had a concussion. 

I'm not sure we have the coaching staff to help improve facets of Allen's game. Why would we? We didn't develop Brock and Paxton- two guys with unique physical skillsets and big arms who weren't pro ready. Why would we be able to develop anyone this time?

Keenum is trash. Aside from this one outlier season, his career TD:INT ratio is 1:1. That's horrific. He's not a particularly talented QB, but he landed in the right situation in MIN. If he comes to Denver, he's going to struggle mightily because, let's face it, he's not, and hasn't been, very good throughout his career.

[bMiller031]

22 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

No accuracy is his only weakness. 

I don't know of many QBs who came into the draft w/this knock and went on to have wildly successful careers. There isn't anything more important or more difficult to improve upon than accuracy. 

[AKRNA]

43 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

No accuracy is his only weakness. The guy works at it. Hes a high character guy . His coach is going out of his way to talk to every NFL team who inquires about him. I don't think every coach does that. I think if we're  doing a spectrum. If Paxton and Jamarcus Russell and Vince Young on one end as far as character and work ethic  i think Allen is at the other.

And I never said unanimous. I'm  just saying I think he's higher on lists than people think. If Hue Jackson was Clevelands gm he'd want Darnold but he's  not pulling the trigger. I also think Cleveland and their owner think picking Allen is a chance to right the wrong of passing on Wentz.

I think Allen is a scary prospect that is worth the gamble. Guy looks like Arnold in the terminator movie. Has like no eyebrows he just is scary.

Usually, when the knock on a QB is his accuracy, they have an incredibly high fail rate. Apparently accuracy is very difficult to correct, you have it or you don't.

[thebestever6]

34 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

I don't know of many QBs who came into the draft w/this knock and went on to have wildly successful careers. There isn't anything more important or more difficult to improve upon than accuracy. 

I think the Brett Favre comp is real I mean having such a strong arm makes guys want to be hero's every play.

[thebestever6]

15 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Usually, when the knock on a QB is his accuracy, they have an incredibly high fail rate. Apparently accuracy is very difficult to correct, you have it or you don't.

I get that apparently the  second half of senior bowl week he made strides.  And with good footwork he looks impressive. It's a gamble but worth the risk imo.