Broncos QB Discussion Thread

[germ-x]

50 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I really hope they don't do that. He can play all three interior line spots at a high level. That's invaluable, kinda like a 6th man in basketball.

Similar with Leary. He can play either side of center at a high level. Draft another OG pretty high and see what fits best.

I love AAA's suggestion that we get aggressive and pay Solder whatever it takes. Be a great mentor for Bolles and let him learn his trade on the right side. With all the fast edge rushers in the league you really need two LT's. Put the lesser of the two on the right side.

So, how'd this look?

LT- Solder

LG- Leary

C-Paradis

RG- Hernandez

RT- Bolles

Add McGovern as our swing interior guy and we're left with needing a "quality" swing tackle.

And this is a great example of what it takes to have an at least above average offensive line in today’s NFL.

Solder is likely a 4-5 year $50-60 million dollar investment and former 1st round pick.

Leary cost 4 years $35 million.

Paradis will be cheap this year, but looking for a good pay day in the 4 year $20 million+ range next season, at minimum.

Hernandez will cost a late 1st or early 2nd.

Bolles was the 20th pick in the draft.

If one wanted to keep that unit together for the next 3 years it’s $30-35 million minimum.  That’s just the financial side, that isn’t getting into spending high drafts picks to keep the unit at an above average level.

Just isn’t feasible, which is why you need a great QB to offset the deficiencies of the OL.

[broncos67]

2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I really hope they don't do that. He can play all three interior line spots at a high level. That's invaluable, kinda like a 6th man in basketball.

Similar with Leary. He can play either side of center at a high level. Draft another OG pretty high and see what fits best.

I love AAA's suggestion that we get aggressive and pay Solder whatever it takes. Be a great mentor for Bolles and let him learn his trade on the right side. With all the fast edge rushers in the league you really need two LT's. Put the lesser of the two on the right side.

So, how'd this look?

LT- Solder

LG- Leary

C-Paradis

RG- Hernandez

RT- Bolles

Add McGovern as our swing interior guy and we're left with needing a "quality" swing tackle.

I do agree it's invaluable, but at the same time, we have a guy who could step in and start, while Max Garcia can play the swing role. Not denying that he's a valuable chess piece, but I don't know that drafting a guard very high is necessarily IF they believe McGovern can start. If he can't, draft Hernandez. I think it's really that simple. But if he can, use the valuable draft capital on other needs, and take a guard later in the Top 110 or so picks.

[champ11]

2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

So, a few of you have brought it up, @broncos67, @champ11, I think AAA and some others. Anyway, I'd love it if Taylor becomes available. He'd be my plan A. Solid QB, great TD/INT ratio and the best in the NFL in ball security. Won't lose the game for you and will move the chains. Not the king of comebacks but good enough to win on a good team.

Wouldn't consider drafting a QB at 5. Probably dangle #5 for a QB desperate team. Someone will pay a premium in picks to move to that spot. Then load up on OL and D talent in the draft.

IMO we'd have the best bet at a rapid reversal of last year taking that route.

I think Tyrod is the best player available behind Cousins and Keenum. Taylor has had a better career than Keenum, so we'll see if Case can keep up his play from the past season - but I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor ends up being better on his next deal than Keenum. I might prefer Taylor for less money than Keenum. 

Taylor wouldn't be my first option, because I don't see him as a top 15 QB or long term starter, but I do think the Broncos could make the playoffs with him at QB and an influx of draft and FA talent. I'd probably rather take one of my guys at 5, but there would be an argument for signing Taylor and using the #5 pick on Nelson or trading down.   

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, germ-x said:

And this is a great example of what it takes to have an at least above average offensive line in today’s NFL.

Solder is likely a 4-5 year $50-60 million dollar investment and former 1st round pick.

Leary cost 4 years $35 million.

Paradis will be cheap this year, but looking for a good pay day in the 4 year $20 million+ range next season, at minimum.

Hernandez will cost a late 1st or early 2nd.

Bolles was the 20th pick in the draft.

If one wanted to keep that unit together for the next 3 years it’s $30-35 million minimum.  That’s just the financial side, that isn’t getting into spending high drafts picks to keep the unit at an above average level.

Just isn’t feasible, which is why you need a great QB to offset the deficiencies of the OL.

It's actually really feasible. Right now the league average OL expense is $29.2 million. Highest cost is the Eagles at almost $50 million. Worked okay for them.

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

It's actually really feasible. Right now the league average OL expense is $29.2 million. Highest cost is the Eagles at almost $50 million. Worked okay for them.

They also have a rookie qb on a rookie contract.

[AKRNA]

2 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

They also have a rookie qb on a rookie contract.

They also had a career backup behind center when they won the SB. 164 yards rushing at over 6 yds per carry,  No sacks, only a couple of pressures. Pretty much all day in the pocket.

Most NFL QB's look pretty good with a running game like that. Especially when they have all day to play pitch and catch.

[thebestever6]

17 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

They also had a career backup behind center when they won the SB. 164 yards rushing at over 6 yds per carry,  No sacks, only a couple of pressures. Pretty much all day in the pocket.

Most NFL QB's look pretty good with a running game like that. Especially when they have all day to play pitch and catch.

They had the best offseason I've ever seen its not the norm. I mean Cory Clement was an Undrafted free agent.

Jeff Fisher ruined nick foles career never should of been a 5 million a year backup.

If you're saying bring in Joe Douglas I agree lol.

[germ-x]

57 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

It's actually really feasible. Right now the league average OL expense is $29.2 million. Highest cost is the Eagles at almost $50 million. Worked okay for them.

Short term?  Sure.  Long term? No, it isn’t.  Offensive lines, skill position talent, and strong defenses will wax and wane.

Nothing trumps an elite franchise QB that makes up for all of those deficincies, which will happen over the course of an elite QBs 15+ year career.

Maybe in the instance of grooming a potential franchise QB it’s worth it to spend the financial and draft assets to protect him early on. Long term, though an NFL OL will never be dominant for 5+ years (hell probably 3 max) Which makes spending capital in it (outside of an elite OT) a waste of picks and money unless the team is elite enough to win a championship and has the money to sign a good player to help put them over the top.

You mention the Eagles as “it worked okay for them.”  I’ll mention the 2016 Broncos who spent money on every other place than the OL...worked well for them too.  Ryan Harris and Michael Schofield started at OT for goodness sakes.

[thebestever6]

11 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Short term?  Sure.  Long term? No, it isn’t.  Offensive lines, skill position talent, and strong defenses will wax and wane.

Nothing trumps an elite franchise QB that makes up for all of those deficincies, which will happen over the course of an elite QBs 15+ year career.

Maybe in the instance of grooming a potential franchise QB it’s worth it to spend the financial and draft assets to protect him early on. Long term, though an NFL OL will never be dominant for 5+ years (hell probably 3 max) Which makes spending capital in it (outside of an elite OT) a waste of picks and money unless the team is elite enough to win a championship and has the money to sign a good player to help put them over the top.

You mention the Eagles as “it worked okay for them.”  I’ll mention the 2016 Broncos who spent money on every other place than the OL...worked well for them too.  Ryan Harris and Michael Schofield started at OT for goodness sakes.

I want hernandez and the right tackle from Mississippi state I think its him. I think our line would be top 10. Wed have them and bolles for 4 more years. And mcgovern could move to center.

[AnAngryAmerican]

17 hours ago, germ-x said:

It’ll be interesting to see who Elway values the most @AnAngryAmerican, mentioned hearing rumors that Rosen was at the top of the list because he was the cleanest passer and I had read that a few weeks back as well.

It is lying season, but there have been a few reports, one from Todd McShay, that Rosen was an up and down interview at the combine.  Meeting him face to face may have changed how they view him.

I also don’t like Rosens mobility.  IMO, the league is moving away from the traditional pocket passer and sticking to the old philosophies would be a mistake.  The NFL, while it takes longer, eventually transitions to what is working at the college level.  The shotgun, RPOs, and getting QBs on the move is where the college game is at.  It’s also where the NFL game has begun to transition.  To be a long term successful immobile pocket passer in today’s league you have to be in a great system and have exceptional pre-snap abilities. 

Further offensive lines suck.  Broncos fans complain about Denver’s and rightfully so, but 90% of fans for other teams are doing the same.  They suck because there isn’t any talent coming from colleges.  If you don’t believe that, look at the combine.  All the athletes, even at the skill positions, go to the defensive side of the ball.  It’s happening because High Schools and Colleges have to combat the spread by putting their best talents (including lineman) on the defense.

QBs have to be able to move, again, unless they’re exceptional in making the right reads and getting the ball out quickly.

Sam Darnold is my #1 QB.  IMO, he’s the mix of both worlds.  Exceptional accuracy and fully capable of sitting in the pocket and picking a team apart, but also has the athleticism and throw on the run ability to operate RPOs, WCO, and run for his life and make plays.

 

I don't put a lot of stock in anything Todd McShay says. A lot of these national reporters are pawns of the agents and GMs who work to manipulate prospects' stock this time of year. 

Is there a QB prospect out there (Mayfield, Allen, Jackson) that is more mobile than Rosen?  Well, yeah, a tree is more mobile, that's not Rosen's game. I disagree that the league is moving away from traditional QBs, they've been saying that since i was in high school. It's not the case. The four QBs in the conference championship games this year? Tom Brady, Blake Bortles, Nick Foles and Case Keenum. No one is going to confuse any of those four with Mike Vick. 

But you are 100000000000000000% correct about college and high school football ruining offensive lines. That is spot-on.

[AnAngryAmerican]

18 hours ago, paul-mac said:

I’m not sure how Elway is going to view Josh Allen. On one hand he is the prototype QB that Elway falls in love with (see Osweiler, Brock and Lynch, Paxton) BUT surely a smart GM like John Elway can learn from his mistakes and realise both of those picks were total busts and he should probably consider trying something different at the QB position? 

Darnold probably isn’t getting past the Giants at 2 and that’s why you aren’t hearing much buzz about him. I could see the Browns taking Barkley if they have 2 or 3 QBs tanked equally, they can get one of them at 4, but Sam Darnold’s floor for me is the Giants, so unless Elway wants to give the farm to Dave Gettlemen then we aren’t getting Darnold. Assuming Indy then takes Bradley Chubb or Fitzpatrick then you’ve got the Browns at 4 and I have to think they’ll take Rosen, so that would give us either Mayfield or Allen. I’d personally much prefer Mayfield, I’m scared of the tall big armed inaccurate passers after Osweiler and Lynch. 

The option that we aren’t talking about is Lamar Jackson, he intrigues me but he’s probably gone by our second rounder and 5 is too early for him. Maybe Elway finds a way to either move back from 5 or move up from our second rounder to the late teens or early 20s. 

Elway isn't going to let past mistakes affect how he drafts this year. He's not going to shy away from a tall, big-armed QB like Josh Allen because Paxton and Brock didn't pan out. Smart GMs don't do that, they evaluate prospects in a vacuum. It scares me, and it's human nature, to shy away from Darnold because every other USC QB who fits his mold - good arm, good athlete, winner, high marks for intangibles, product of a pro-style system, etc - all not named Carson Palmer busted. But smart GMs don't think that way, Sam Darnold won't be evaluated as if he were Mark Sanchez or Matt Leinart, he will be evaluated as Sam Darnold just like Josh Allen will be evaluated as Josh Allen not as Paxton Lynch. 

And I've said it a million times, but I just don't see the Elway-Kubiak-Musgrave-Sullivan brain trust going for an unconventional QB like Jackson or Mayfield. I could be wrong, and taking one of them would certainly make things interesting, but I would be awfully surprised if that's the route they went. Take away the fact that they're both unconventional, they're also both small and slight and behind our OL against NFL defenses they'd get killed a way that a 6'5" 250lb Josh Allen would not. 

[bMiller031]

5 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

And I've said it a million times, but I just don't see the Elway-Kubiak-Musgrave-Sullivan brain trust going for an unconventional QB like Jackson or Mayfield. I could be wrong, and taking one of them would certainly make things interesting, but I would be awfully surprised if that's the route they went. Take away the fact that they're both unconventional, they're also both small and slight and behind our OL against NFL defenses they'd get killed a way that a 6'5" 250lb Josh Allen would not. 

I'm thinking Mayfield is more likely than Allen because of the gap of readiness between the two. Given Elway's comments about rookie QBs cutting their teeth early rather than sitting, I can't see them paying Keenum/Taylor AND spending the capital for a QB at 1.5.

Two unwise decisions that I'd hope Elways stays away from:

1. The bridge QB option- it ties up $, doesn't make us a contender this season, and doesn't allow those reps to go to the QBOTF.

2. The rookie who isn't ready to play (i.e. Anyone besides Rosen, Darnold (maybe), and Mayfield). 

For those reasons, I'd be shocked if Elway went with Josh Allen at 1.5. He doesn't solve our 2018 QB problem and doesn't allow us to squeeze what's left out of this defense. 

[thebestever6]

37 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

I'm thinking Mayfield is more likely than Allen because of the gap of readiness between the two. Given Elway's comments about rookie QBs cutting their teeth early rather than sitting, I can't see them paying Keenum/Taylor AND spending the capital for a QB at 1.5.

Two unwise decisions that I'd hope Elways stays away from:

1. The bridge QB option- it ties up $, doesn't make us a contender this season, and doesn't allow those reps to go to the QBOTF.

2. The rookie who isn't ready to play (i.e. Anyone besides Rosen, Darnold (maybe), and Mayfield). 

For those reasons, I'd be shocked if Elway went with Josh Allen at 1.5. He doesn't solve our 2018 QB problem and doesn't allow us to squeeze what's left out of this defense. 

So shy away from the only prospect who ran a pro style offense got it 

[thebestever6]

Allen and Mayfield are my most intriguing prospects. They can spread a d thin. They can run around making things happen then boom. 60 yard completion on a rope.

[thebestever6]

Greg Cosell said Josh Allen reminds him of Elway coming out. And I respect him tremendously. He also said Rosens tape is way better  than Darnolds. And Lamar Jackson intrigues him.  He said why can't they do the same with Lamar that they did with Desean Watson?