Prospect Deep Dive - Derwin James SS/WILL

[DreamKid]

A great article on Derwin James,

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-derwin-james-is-exactly-what-the-nfl-needs-on-defense

One of the best quotes:

"A creative defensive coordinator will get the most out of James’ skillset, while offsetting the mismatch options good offenses can throw out there every week. While safeties often get labeled as a position that lacks value, don’t be fooled, James is more than just a safety, he’s a playmaker and a top-5 talent in the 2018 NFL draft."

The bolded is where I can understand Raven fans being concerned about drafting him, but I think Derwin's versatility and dynamism trumps the inept approach many anticipate Martindale to take. James actually simplifies things for Wink, he can beat out either Patrick Onwuasor at WILB or Anthony Levine at MB and earn playing time in either role but he would simplify things by just taking both their jobs. We wouldn't have to sub from nickel to dime ever, so the only "creativity' Wink has to worry about is properly utilizing our DL and Edge players.

For anyone worried about run defense being an issue due to sticking a supposed safety at Will-

1. Our ILBs are already bad against the run, and Derwin would actually be an upgrade. He shows an ability to take on blockers that's super rare for his still growing frame and his attacking instincts are suburb. His range is greater than all of our LBs, a true sideline to sideline demon, and he is known for being able to stop all outside rush attempts. He has the physicality, instincts, ingenuity, and temperament to be a monster against the run. James has more stopping power than anyone we have at LB besides Suggs obviously, if he hits Leveon then Bell and the ball are going backwards.

2. This is what we have two giant DIs for, Pierce and Williams clog everything up so play makers at LB can make plays. Unfortunately we haven't had play makers at the position for a couple years but that's what Derwin would be, a bonafide superstar back there flying around. 

 

Multiple mocks from respected people in the draft world show clear paths in which Calvin Ridley or Derwin James fall to our pick and I don't disagree with them, it's a weird draft. I don't get the feeling I did last year about having no shot at the guy most wanted for our team, there was just no way Corey Davis fell to us no matter how we cracked it but in this draft we're set up to either fill our biggest need with the most ready and proven player at the position in Calvin Ridley or get the best BPA defensive player to fall to us in years.

The only place where this draft doesn't work in our favor is with the long stretch between our 1st and 2nd round picks where a massive run on WRs could come. I like how thick this WR class is, it has a lot of meat in the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th, but I wouldn't mind the FO getting aggressive and making sure we get one of the younger high potential guys in Gallup or Washington etc. 

[DreamKid]

Great chronicling of Derwin's season through chronological highlights with some analyst chatter about his athleticism and football intelligence/IQ sprinkled in too. If this guy is actually there for our pick.......

 

[Danand]

Can Derwin James legitimately play the free safety once Weddle is gone in 1-2 years? I like James if his knee checks out and he could be the vocal leader who could replace Suggs, but if is has to battle out Onwuasor, Jefferson, Bam Bradley, Levine, Clark etc. or basically push on of them back and away from playing time, I don't know how this pick will actually fit.

Rotating Jefferson in as an inside linebacker like the did with that big safety in Arizona, that could be a nice option though.

[DreamKid]

19 minutes ago, Danand said:

Can Derwin James legitimately play the free safety once Weddle is gone in 1-2 years? I like James if his knee checks out and he could be the vocal leader who could replace Suggs, but if is has to battle out Onwuasor, Jefferson, Bam Bradley, Levine, Clark etc. or basically push on of them back and away from playing time, I don't know how this pick will actually fit.

Rotating Jefferson in as an inside linebacker like the did with that big safety in Arizona, that could be a nice option though.

Derwin can play free but I don't think it's his best fit, and it's the only position where his play down ticks.

At worst he would take away Levine/Clark's snaps as our 3rd safety in our Dime package, but best case he would take their snaps and Onwuasor's. Which is what makes him so valuable. From there it opens up scheme flexibility with him being able to float into Tony's role seamlessly. He would also be the direct answer to our major inability to cover TEs, which cost us games last year. He'll be worth his weight in gold when we meet horrific match up players like McCaffrey and Gronkowski.

He's a special player, and his intangibles are off the chart. There's no question his explosion was lessened after the knee injury, but he's still elite and another year removed from the surgery should serve him even better. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Sorry if this has been explained in depth already, but assuming we somehow go with Derwin James in the 1st round if he's there, where do we play him this year?

[coordinator0]

7 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

Sorry if this has been explained in depth already, but assuming we somehow go with Derwin James in the 1st round if he's there, where do we play him this year?

Most likely the dime role assuming Martindale continues to use it (he should). Levine was pretty decent there, but if James is drafted he gets priority. Weddle and/or Jefferson aren't getting demoted.

Of course I would love to see Tony moved to the dime role, but I'm not holding my breath. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

12 minutes ago, coordinator0 said:

Most likely the dime role assuming Martindale continues to use it (he should). Levine was pretty decent there, but if James is drafted he gets priority. Weddle and/or Jefferson aren't getting demoted.

Of course I would love to see Tony moved to the dime role, but I'm not holding my breath. 

And then moving forward he would be our..SS?

[coordinator0]

5 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

And then moving forward he would be our..SS?

Maybe, Jefferson can be cut with significant cap savings next season. But there's a chance that the dime is a big enough part of the defense that having one (good) player dedicated to that spot makes sense.

[berlin calling]

he'd probably replace the Beard after next season. you guys need to realise there are some elder leaders of the team to be replaced in the next 2 yrs. Yanda being the most significant. Suggs, Weddle. James would be i a good spot to learn a year playing nxt to Weddle before taking the reigns in the backfield. 

 

[coordinator0]

5 minutes ago, berlin calling said:

he'd probably replace the Beard after next season. you guys need to realise there are some elder leaders of the team to be replaced in the next 2 yrs. Yanda being the most significant. Suggs, Weddle. James would be i a good spot to learn a year playing nxt to Weddle before taking the reigns in the backfield. 

 

I don't want to see James at FS. Please, please, please get someone in that actually should be covering the deep part of the field. Fit is just as important as talent, and Derwin doesn't fit there.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

So I think I'm starting to see the issue with drafting James is that we would really have to alter our strategy going forward and there's no clear short term + long term cohesive plan for him. Short term we have to relegate him to a dime role or bench Jefferson. Long term we have to cut Jefferson or move him to FS. Another option is moving him to ILB and making him a "Moneybacker" like Deone Bucannon - I don't think Martindale is that creative.

Maybe I'm overthinking what I think 1st picks are, but I don't think they're just "good" Dime players. I view them as difference makers, especially on defense. If we draft Derwin James, the expectation should be that he's going to be a difference maker for this team, not a role player in the Dime packages.

Ultimately, I'm just struggling to see the fit he has on this team if it's not as an ILB.

[DreamKid]

1 minute ago, Darth Pees said:

Ultimately, I'm just struggling to see the fit he has on this team if it's not as an ILB.

He would play WILB in our base D and Nickel, and in our Dime package he would take over the role of Levine/Clark who rotate in for Peanut. So he would actually make things simpler for Wink by being so versatile. He is an absolute a plug and play impact player, he will shut down opposing TEs, satellite backs, etc. He will even be a force against the run, he excels at defending the stretch concepts which are so in vogue right now. Sideline to Sideline, it's like drafting a Pro Bowl SS and LB at the same time. 

 

15 minutes ago, coordinator0 said:

I don't want to see James at FS. Please, please, please get someone in that actually should be covering the deep part of the field. Fit is just as important as talent, and Derwin doesn't fit there.

This. He isn't terrible at FS, but he's elite at SS and Will. IMO he's a top 10 LB, top 15 SS, and a 3rd-4th round FS, if you were to apply draft stock to his various capabilities.

[coordinator0]

1 hour ago, Darth Pees said:

So I think I'm starting to see the issue with drafting James is that we would really have to alter our strategy going forward and there's no clear short term + long term cohesive plan for him. Short term we have to relegate him to a dime role or bench Jefferson. Long term we have to cut Jefferson or move him to FS. Another option is moving him to ILB and making him a "Moneybacker" like Deone Bucannon - I don't think Martindale is that creative.

Maybe I'm overthinking what I think 1st picks are, but I don't think they're just "good" Dime players. I view them as difference makers, especially on defense. If we draft Derwin James, the expectation should be that he's going to be a difference maker for this team, not a role player in the Dime packages.

Ultimately, I'm just struggling to see the fit he has on this team if it's not as an ILB.

A player at the dime position can be a difference-maker. If that package is utilized it's a pretty important part of the defense. I don't see it as "just" being a role player. It's not that cut-and-dry. Too many other circumstances come into play.

We just don't know how often it will be utilized. Pees only really used it this past season and who knows what Martindale wants to do. The defense would be much, much better off it it was a big part of the scheme (as opposed to base sets or even your standard nickel if the dime gets a talent like James on the field in a spot where he can dominate) but again, who knows. I'm not holding out hope for good, smart things though. That's not what Harbaugh is about.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

55 minutes ago, coordinator0 said:

A player at the dime position can be a difference-maker. If that package is utilized it's a pretty important part of the defense. I don't see it as "just" being a role player. It's not that cut-and-dry. Too many other circumstances come into play.

We just don't know how often it will be utilized. Pees only really used it this past season and who knows what Martindale wants to do. The defense would be much, much better off it it was a big part of the scheme (as opposed to base sets or even your standard nickel if the dime gets a talent like James on the field in a spot where he can dominate) but again, who knows. I'm not holding out hope for good, smart things though. That's not what Harbaugh is about.

Going off of the snap counts this past season, Levine played on 23% of our defensive snaps, and Chuck Clark (the other dime LB) played 5%. IMO, if we're going to be using a luxury pick as a dime linebacker, he's gotta be out there at least 50% of the snaps if he's a 1st round talent. 1/4 of defensive snaps simply isn't enough.

My big point here is that it's nice to think about another defensive playmaker, someone who can really be an impact guy, but right now I just don't know how we would get him on the field immediately to make an impact without benching someone like Mosley or Jefferson or Weddle. The only thing to me that makes sense is draft him to be an ILB next to Mosley. That's an immediate position where he can be an impact player and play on 3rd downs.

[DreamKid]

13 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

The only thing to me that makes sense is draft him to be an ILB next to Mosley. That's an immediate position where he can be an impact player and play on 3rd downs.

This point has been made for months. We all want him at WILB. Geez Darth, I'm beginning to think you don't read my countless rambling draft posts in their entirety. But yea that's where he would play. He's a rare player that is elite in coverage and plus against the run as well. He's a tone setting hitter and benches over 400 pounds at 230+, he'd be our strongest LB.