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Phingasm 23

Is It Me Or Does Rosen Have A Stink Of Cutler/Leaf?

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I don't know the guy.  So perhaps I'm being unfair.  However, I've done lots of reading on Rosen.  I've read quite a bit about arrogance, passion and disrespect to coaches and fellow players.  I've also read a bit on the fact that he doesn't seem to have the level of passion and determination that you would look for.  Obviously there are always three sides to every story (truth is one of them).  He seems mega capable as a QB but I just get this Leaf/Cutler shoulder shrugging, lack of desire spider sense.  I hope I'm wrong and the kid goes on to be a great pro.  If he does, I hope the Phins end up with him.  To me without having seen them workout yet though, I'm most comfortable with Mayfield either at 11 or we bundle whatever we get for Landry and move up and snag him.  

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It’s not just you.  I have the exact same feeling.  Guy has a lot of arm talent, throws a great deep ball, doesn’t have a lot of help around him from his college teammates.  A recipe for Jay Cutler part deux.

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Posted (edited)

Haven't those rumblings about Rosen essentially been debunked?  I think it stemmed from one guy before the 2017 season, but since then he has been fine.  

Edit:  It doesn't matter anyway.  Rosen will be long gone by the time we pick.

Edited by hrubes20

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I think Rosen/Allen/Darnold are all pipe dreams for Miami tbh so I don't think we'll have to worry about it. The cost to move up to 4 (where they'd probably need to get to) would be too prohibitive.

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2 minutes ago, cddolphin said:

I think Rosen/Allen/Darnold are all pipe dreams for Miami tbh so I don't think we'll have to worry about it. The cost to move up to 4 (where they'd probably need to get to) would be too prohibitive.

I think Allen is still there at 11, tbh.  His accuracy and ball placement is just so dang bad.

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7 minutes ago, hrubes20 said:

I think Allen is still there at 11, tbh.  His accuracy and ball placement is just so dang bad.

Ya, I agree.  I think The QB top three are clearly Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield.  Which order they fall in just depends on the team making the pick.  I see Allen as a late first round talent that will likely go sooner because of his measurables and the inflation of the QB position.  His accuracy stinks........ he’s not even close to working on ball placement yet, he’s still learning how to put the ball within 2 yards of the receiver.  He could be a good NFL QB, but it’s going to take 2-3 years and IMO the odds are stacked against him.  Typically if a QB has accuracy issues before getting to the NFL then he will never get it IMO.

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I guess the main potential issue is that if he doesn't need the money that comes from playing football due to his family, at what point when things get tough might he choose to say it;s not worth it.  It's a decent conversation.  Though, we should keep in mind that most starting QBs by the time they get to their third contract don't necessarily NEED the money and are doing it for the love of the game and the money pads their bank account.  Rosen has said that he feels the due to him not needing the money and playing due to a passion for football make him a more sure thing than others.  I mean....I guess.  Hunger to succeed can come form multiple sources.  Maybe to make your family proud, disprove doubters, make money, or just simply the desire to be the best at something.  I think it's an issue that deserved it's moment in the sun but there are multitudes of players that could have made the same money or better not playing football.  Every player isn't going to become a corner crack peddler without football.  

 

I see the Dolphins looking to make a move to resolve the QB issue this year with whomever they deem the right fit.  If it's Rosen, I hope they make a move to get him.  If it's Santa Claus I hope they make a move to get him.  I don't care if the QB is a damned rutabaga as long as he is a top five QB and make our team dominant.  Sick of being a fan of an average team.   

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Lot of you are going to be disappointed when the Dolphins inevitably draft someone like Falk or Lee in the middle rounds to develop behind Tannehill.

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1 hour ago, cddolphin said:

Lot of you are going to be disappointed when the Dolphins inevitably draft someone like Falk or Lee in the middle rounds to develop behind Tannehill.

I would be.  We are garbage at developing Qbs if you look at Doughty and Moore and even Cutler's performance.  Maybe we can develop an offense that doesn't need a QB. 

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Lots of people don't like Rosen. Personally I'm not a fan of any QB in this year's draft, and definitely don't want one in round 1.

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27 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Lots of people don't like Rosen. Personally I'm not a fan of any QB in this year's draft, and definitely don't want one in round 1.

You'd rather just go into year 7 of the Tannehill can become a top ten QB project with no QB hope on the horizon?  Sounds miserable.

 

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47 minutes ago, Phingasm 23 said:

You'd rather just go into year 7 of the Tannehill can become a top ten QB project with no QB hope on the horizon?  Sounds miserable.

 

Tannehill is far better than the other options, so yes. No use picking a bust at 11. Or worse, trading up for one. I truly believe we are capable of winning with him, the team last season under Tannehill and this season under Cutler was night and day.

I honestly don't see why some Dolfans would rather roll the dice on a new QB when we have numerous holes on defense and the offensive line still. Especially with there being some top-level talent available in this draft that fit our immediate needs.

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18 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Tannehill is far better than the other options, so yes. No use picking a bust at 11. Or worse, trading up for one. I truly believe we are capable of winning with him, the team last season under Tannehill and this season under Cutler was night and day.

I honestly don't see why some Dolfans would rather roll the dice on a new QB when we have numerous holes on defense and the offensive line still. Especially with there being some top-level talent available in this draft that fit our immediate needs.

I don't know how you know that there is no better qb in the draft than Tannehill.  I haven't read that anywhere.  All four of the top QB prospects have really bright upsides. Tannehill will have missed 20 games due to injury and both Matt Moore and Doughty suck.  So, we have a question mark at starter due to missing over a full season and no reliable backup that can win if T-Hill goes down.  WE also have a coach whose bread is butter by enhancing QB play in his third year after botching it last year with no backup plan when Tannehills knee wasn't held together with fairy dust and hot wife tape.  So, knowing that and every FA qb being hot garbage unless Brees breaks free of NO, we should draft oline and CB?  No offense intended, but that sounds like the exact type of bad thinking that has been employed since JJ retired as coach.  The lets play it safe and cross our fingers approach.  

So....let's play out your thought.  Tannehill starts and we find some middling 5th round QB as a backup AGAIN.  We play t safe and I don't know I guess take Nelson as OG or James at Safety or Smith at LB.  Tannehill is at best dusty and even slower to avoid sacks now (league worst at pocket presence and being able to escape sacks as evidenced by the shipping container of them he has taken so far.  PLUS, he's now not as quick to go on the run which is the only thing that ever made him dangerous to begin with.  So, by the 5th game he's taken 15 sacks.  Someone whacks the knee.  Boom he's out of the game pending an MRI.  Let's plug in WHO EXACTLY?  Whatever scrub we have as backup is meh at best and we finish the season 4-12.  We now are a year later with no QB groomed and even bigger questions on Tannehill that is worth nothing in trade as he's made of pre-fractured crystal and movie window panes.  Gase is fired and we get to start all over with a coach who probably isn't as good as Gase even is.  But the good news is out OG/LB/safety position got better which helped win maybe one whole game.  

OR we could go my route.  Scoop up one of the top four QBs and groom him behind Tannehill.  Let Tannehill play this year.  But, if he goes down we actually have someone that could win as many or more games as Tannehill.  They could eventually become a top five QB.  We could actually win games as we have worked to shore up the most important position.  It's called having a plan.  Its called bringing in competition.  Its called making the team more capable of winning and recovering from QB injury that ultimately ruined last season.  

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1 hour ago, Phingasm 23 said:

I don't know how you know that there is no better qb in the draft than Tannehill.  I haven't read that anywhere.  All four of the top QB prospects have really bright upsides. Tannehill will have missed 20 games due to injury and both Matt Moore and Doughty suck.  So, we have a question mark at starter due to missing over a full season and no reliable backup that can win if T-Hill goes down.  WE also have a coach whose bread is butter by enhancing QB play in his third year after botching it last year with no backup plan when Tannehills knee wasn't held together with fairy dust and hot wife tape.  So, knowing that and every FA qb being hot garbage unless Brees breaks free of NO, we should draft oline and CB?  No offense intended, but that sounds like the exact type of bad thinking that has been employed since JJ retired as coach.  The lets play it safe and cross our fingers approach.  

So....let's play out your thought.  Tannehill starts and we find some middling 5th round QB as a backup AGAIN.  We play t safe and I don't know I guess take Nelson as OG or James at Safety or Smith at LB.  Tannehill is at best dusty and even slower to avoid sacks now (league worst at pocket presence and being able to escape sacks as evidenced by the shipping container of them he has taken so far.  PLUS, he's now not as quick to go on the run which is the only thing that ever made him dangerous to begin with.  So, by the 5th game he's taken 15 sacks.  Someone whacks the knee.  Boom he's out of the game pending an MRI.  Let's plug in WHO EXACTLY?  Whatever scrub we have as backup is meh at best and we finish the season 4-12.  We now are a year later with no QB groomed and even bigger questions on Tannehill that is worth nothing in trade as he's made of pre-fractured crystal and movie window panes.  Gase is fired and we get to start all over with a coach who probably isn't as good as Gase even is.  But the good news is out OG/LB/safety position got better which helped win maybe one whole game.  

OR we could go my route.  Scoop up one of the top four QBs and groom him behind Tannehill.  Let Tannehill play this year.  But, if he goes down we actually have someone that could win as many or more games as Tannehill.  They could eventually become a top five QB.  We could actually win games as we have worked to shore up the most important position.  It's called having a plan.  Its called bringing in competition.  Its called making the team more capable of winning and recovering from QB injury that ultimately ruined last season.  

I really don't think Tannehill is injury prone or will be 'slow'. And it's funny, you complain about his pocket presence, which is honestly a weakness, but it was developed because we trotted Tannehill out after drafting him behind the worst line in the NFL. Are you really looking to make the same mistake? No rookie QB is going to succeed behind this interior OL. We'd just get him killed.

And, of course all the QBs in the draft have upside. Not denying that. But none of them are going to be a better option than Tannehill day one, all come with severe question marks, and frankly, our OL is not in the state that would let a rookie QB gain confidence or flourish. Perhaps you are more high on the QB prospects in this draft than I am, but I honestly don't think any of them is going to be a superstar. Rosen is probably the best of the bunch overall but sounds like he may be a head case. Josh Allen can't hit the broad side of a barn at point blank range, Mayfield is a college spread QB with a release that makes me think I'm watching Blake Bortles, Sam Darnold is a turnover machine, and Lamar Jackson is an injury waiting to happen. A rookie QB is far from the instant fix you seem to think it is.

Tannehill is a top 15 QB in the league, imo. We just saw Nick Foles win the Super Bowl, and Case freakin Keenum & Blake Bortles get within a game of being there. No reason to think we can't if we put some solid talent around Tannehill and beef up on the defense.

But I think we'll have to agree to disagree about this one.

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1 hour ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I really don't think Tannehill is injury prone or will be 'slow'. And it's funny, you complain about his pocket presence, which is honestly a weakness, but it was developed because we trotted Tannehill out after drafting him behind the worst line in the NFL. Are you really looking to make the same mistake? No rookie QB is going to succeed behind this interior OL. We'd just get him killed.

And, of course all the QBs in the draft have upside. Not denying that. But none of them are going to be a better option than Tannehill day one, all come with severe question marks, and frankly, our OL is not in the state that would let a rookie QB gain confidence or flourish. Perhaps you are more high on the QB prospects in this draft than I am, but I honestly don't think any of them is going to be a superstar. Rosen is probably the best of the bunch overall but sounds like he may be a head case. Josh Allen can't hit the broad side of a barn at point blank range, Mayfield is a college spread QB with a release that makes me think I'm watching Blake Bortles, Sam Darnold is a turnover machine, and Lamar Jackson is an injury waiting to happen. A rookie QB is far from the instant fix you seem to think it is.

Tannehill is a top 15 QB in the league, imo. We just saw Nick Foles win the Super Bowl, and Case freakin Keenum & Blake Bortles get within a game of being there. No reason to think we can't if we put some solid talent around Tannehill and beef up on the defense.

But I think we'll have to agree to disagree about this one.

I hear what you're saying.  But regardless of the Oline Tannehill has never had the pocket presence to avoid the rush.  Watch the tape if you want.  He just crumbles.  So yes, the Oline has been horrendous at protecting him T-hill himself almost runs towards them ala Favre with Sapp's last sack.  

We're year 7 of the Tannehill project.  Now he's injured and we all have to say has the distinct possibility of being less mobile than pre-injury due to both physical and psychological ramifications of having been injured and what it meant for him.  Mayfield has been the best QB in FBS for the last two years setting records in tds, yardage, completions and low ints.  That wasn't all against Big 10 porous D's either as he tore apart both the dominant Buckeye and the Bulldog defenses single handily.  You wouldn't take him at 11 or make a move to snag him and cause competition and have a succession plan?  Then take Andrews Guice or Chubb in second round and sure I agree then toss the rest at O line.  

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