Orlando Brown Jr

[diamondbull424]

So we all know how horrid his combine was. We also know what he brings to the table from the tape.

How does everything view him as a player? Do you still see him as a 1st round option? Is he a second round option? Or off your board entirely?

 

I think if he falls to either our 2nd or 3rd round picks, depending on who is available, I would still love to bring him in. After seeing a combine interview on him, I didn’t know that he was a 3 Star prospect coming out of high school. Quite interesting that he went from that to becoming one of the premier blockers in college football. Going back to the tape, he’s not very athletic, but what he does have are two decent first steps, he has long arms, and he plays with good technique.

I've always like Connor Williams and Tyrell Crosby more than Brown, but after rewatching the tape... I would still rate him as a 4 Star player (I’ve still yet to watch Kolton Millers tape). I think Brown would be a steal as a RT in the 2nd round... as he’s a pro bowl caliber talent based off the tape (just would prefer Nick Chubb or Rashaad Penny over him).

[berlin calling]

i don't question his tape and career stats, which after all made him a possible 1st round candidate.

what turns me off is the complete lack of effort in the most important contest of his career so far, an event that could basically make him a millionaire.

to me that possibly reflects his character. is he willing to bring a consistent effort for years, keep his weight in balance, be a regular in the weight room etc.

i don't know and from the information available to me now i'd highly doubt that.

therefor, pass until the 4th round earliest.

[Danand]

This is one of the situations, where people focus way to much on what he can't do, instead of what he can do. One of the examples of "where he wins".

Being 6'8 and 350, if he had blown out the combine as an athlete, we would talk about him in the top 5. Instead, he did what most expected, but also hoped he had proven wrong, that he is not an exceptionel athlete, but he is not supposed to look good running 40 yards or jumping up in the air or benchpressing till his pec gives in.

He wins by being a mauler, using his length and having surprisingly active hands.

People question his character without knowing much about it. From interviews, he comes of as well spoken, he clarified he promised his dad to reutrn to college instead of entering the draft early, he also mentioned that he knows he has to reshape his body as he carries a lot of bad weight. Now the question is if he means it, or it is just draft talk.

Going into an NFL program with his pedigree and what I have seen from the stuff I could get my hands on of tape, if he has a professional mentality, I think he will be a very good player and worthy of our first round pick.

If he falls because of the combine, and if he decides to pull an Andre Smith and run with his shirt off, I would be extremely happy to get him in the second round or lower.

[drd23]

Watching this, I don't think his poor performance was an issue with his character.  He's just not a natural athlete

That said, he did not look good in any of the drills.  It might make some scouts go back and re-look at his film

[diamondbull424]

6 hours ago, drd23 said:

Watching this, I don't think his poor performance was an issue with his character.  He's just not a natural athlete

That said, he did not look good in any of the drills.  It might make some scouts go back and re-look at his film

Yeah. This is the combine video that I was referring to in the OP.

He comes off as well spoken, professional, and intelligent. I think based on the tape, he’s easily a fringe 1st/2nd round player.

That said his body and a lack of functional muscle makes me nervous enough to not want to give him that 5th year option. But I’d easily be willing to go with him in the 2nd round based off of tape. He’s a junior and has gone from 450 lbs to 340 lbs. I imagine his weight loss is part of the reason he’s not as functionally strong. He was focusing more on conditioning/weight loss and less on muscle mass. Now that his weight is where he wants it, he can continue to transition fat into muscle.

[BareYourTeeth]

This thread should be titled Terrence Cody 2.0

[DreamKid]

Sorry Dan. We took T-Will in the 3rd though, so you have hope.

 

[DreamKid]

 

[Danand]

Heck, if he becomes a later round pick for us, I have absolutely NO problem with us getting him. If his athletic upside is what drops him, I can understand it. It just annoys me when people point to the lack of athleticism as a reason to why he can't play. Again, its where he wins, not where he loses, that should count.

Mike McGlinchey wins with hands rather than strength and athleticism and overall length, and that will sometimes lead to him being beat right of the bat when he doesn't get to use his hands.

I would still like to see both of them on the team.

[diamondbull424]

So just noticed that Orlando Brown has his proday and had some mild improvements to his combine numbers.

6’8” 340 lbs (down 5 lbs)

18 bench reps of 225 (up 4 reps)

25 1/2” vertical jump (up from 19 1/2”)

89” broad jump (up from 82”)

5.63s forty yard dash (up from 5.82s)

I like the jump numbers having improved. Those make me feel a little more comfortable with Brown Jr.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/14/orlando-brown-pro-day-combine-workout-oklahoma-bench-press-forty-time

edit: His proday was March 14th

[Danand]

Those are still not great numbers, and this shouldn't really move the needle on him, and neither should the combine.

While a comparisson to a QB isn't exactly the best way to do it, Brown is like a QB who didn't run great and who can't throw the ball 70 yards on his knees.

Foot quickness is the only real thing which could scare me, but again I rarely see it being an issue on tape. When defensive ends go wide on him, they have to go real wide and he still manages to get a hand on them and push them further away giving the QB a chance to take 2-3 steps forward into the pocket.

If we could get by with Howard on the right side last year, I can't see why we couldn't be even better with Brown who also has the upside. Going down now 110 lbs, there is a lot of physical improvement just waiting on him if he has the work ethic.

That is all it comes down to. I don't buy the Lance Zierlein take, that teams have been 3. day (4-7) round low on him. Take a team who wants smaller athletic linemen who can move, and OFC you get a statement from a team scout that they have Brown low.

Worst case Brown is an Ereck Flowers, but so far he is already ahead of what Flowers was coming into the league. Especially the hand usage is where I see Brown have an edge (also compared to other tackles in this draft).

[diamondbull424]

The biggest concern for me was never his forty time, but his explosion numbers. His 10 yard split was 2s, that’s terrible for an OL. There’s no way he could ever get to the second level with that type of speed, even with a great angle. But 1.88s is better, less concerning.

The vertical was also a concern at 19”, because you have to question if he wasn’t just pushing back college lineman because of length and physical profile. The arm strength doesn’t matter to me as much as having road grader legs. Legs that can explode into a defender in short yardage situations and move them backward. Ideally I like a lineman that can hit 30+” in their vertical for that reason, that shows great explosiveness at that size. My top three OTs in this class all hit that number (Williams, Crosby, Miller).

So his proday numbers does help to ease my concern with him. I still would have him as a fringe 2nd-3rd round player at this point though. I most likely wouldn’t take him with our 2nd round pick, but would be excited to have him with our 3rd rounder.

[Danand]

I went back and saw 3 random cut ups from games on Connor Williams, Kolton Miller and Brown. Brown is still my 1. ranked tackle in this class. He doesn't get pushed back like Miller does, he is more in control against pass rushers compared to Williams. Both Miller and Williams are better at getting to the next level on blocks but I don't see them getting the same push on the defender as Brown, which also can be a scheme thing, Especially Williams mostly walls off the defender rather than moving him. I see the same thing from Stanley when he was at Notre Dame and I see it with McGlinchey.

[coordinator0]

1 hour ago, Danand said:

I went back and saw 3 random cut ups from games on Connor Williams, Kolton Miller and Brown. Brown is still my 1. ranked tackle in this class. He doesn't get pushed back like Miller does, he is more in control against pass rushers compared to Williams. Both Miller and Williams are better at getting to the next level on blocks but I don't see them getting the same push on the defender as Brown, which also can be a scheme thing, Especially Williams mostly walls off the defender rather than moving him. I see the same thing from Stanley when he was at Notre Dame and I see it with McGlinchey.

Stanley is really good though. Well, when he's healthy and on the field. Being great at walling off the defender isn't a bad thing even if getting a great push isn't part of the repertoire. Ronnie is fine blocking the run anyways though.

But none of these guys are as good of prospects overall as Stanley was. Someone with a lesser overall talent level having similar issues might not be able to get by.

[diamondbull424]

I feel there is a great disrespect being done to Connor Williams here.

No disrespect to Orlando Brown, but I highly disagree with any universe where he’s considered above Williams. I wouldn’t be against being pointed in the direction of the tape being watched though.

First off, Brown is a really good run blocker and would really add that to the equation for us. So I’m not against the idea of Brown.

But in pass blocking, there is no comparison. You turn on the Ohio State, Nick Bosa film where Brown is going up against an NFL caliber athlete and it’s very concerning.

Oklahoma was smart, they utilized a lot of rolling pockets to protect Brown (where they rolled away from him on every occasion as far as I can remember.) Whats more when the pocket wasn’t rolling, Baker Mayfield protected Brown (or himself rather) by getting the ball out quickly. I timed it, in the entirety of the game, only two passing plays lasted longer than 3 seconds (most were 2 seconds) that weren’t moving pockets; on both of those plays Bosa landed at the feet of Mayfield. That’s not good.

Contrast that to Connor Williams. His very worst tape came against Maryland. A team/program that’s known for athletes. Williams had a multitude of drop backs where the play took longer than 4 seconds. He definitely got beat multiple times and the time where he looked to give up the sack he held the defender to prevent a QB hit. That said he also had a much larger sample size of long developing plays he had to block for to be exposed. He gave up double the QB pressures to Brown, but on about 10x the amount of pass reps above 4 seconds.

If we turn on the 2016 tape, this is truly no contest between the two. I like elements of what Brown brings to the table, especially as a RT only option. But Williams at his best is a top 10 prospect. At his worst, he’s fringe 1st/2nd OT tape wise. The same isn’t true of Brown IMO.