Brit Pack Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 17 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: Those are players with contracts running out in the next three years. You expect to be able to afford new players or our own players while paying Rodgers 15% of the cap every single year? A 3% increase in cap for QB #1 ain't going to prevent you singing or resigning players when you roll over more than 4.5% annually anyway. Your argument would make more sense if we were constantly up against the cap. If we you really wanted to push it you may say that a 3% cap increase on QB #1 MIGHT prevent you from singing or retaining ONE of your players but in reality, we got players on much worse contracts which are stopping us doing that if that really was the case e.g. Cobb and to a lesser extent Bulaga. As someone else said even if we fixed Rodgers contract at 15% for the next 5 years in a couple of years 15% of cap will seem like a good deal. Anyway for me fixating on how 3% of the cap gets spent is not the issue it is how the rest of the 97% of the cap gets spent which prevents teams from being competitive or not. Furthermore, the whole way the NFL is setup makes it such a crap shoot or 'the any given Sunday' element of the game which makes it so exciting, that once you are in the playoffs that any team can win it e.g. Pats vs Falcons or Pats vs Seahawks. To create and attribute a link between % of QB cap and winning super bowls is very weak in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 6 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Your average guy doesn't even get his ACL repaired if he tears it. To act like there aren't different medical and surgical options for different people is ludicrous. An average of 100,000 ACL reconstructions are performed in the US annually. My current patient caseload includes - 63 year old male ski patrol - 42 year old mom of 2 recreational soccer player -34 year old male mechanical engineer recreational Frisbee player - 38 year old male steam fitter - 13 year old female club soccer player -14 year old female non athlete, band and orchestra member -20 year old male college student, rec sports But you are right, the average Joe does not get there ACL reconstructed. A statement was made that collarbone fractures heal 100%of the time. Medical literature and research states differently. Make a case and argue using facts not false statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 31 minutes ago, squire12 said: An average of 100,000 ACL reconstructions are performed in the US annually. My current patient caseload includes - 63 year old male ski patrol - 42 year old mom of 2 recreational soccer player -34 year old male mechanical engineer recreational Frisbee player - 38 year old male steam fitter - 13 year old female club soccer player -14 year old female non athlete, band and orchestra member -20 year old male college student, rec sports But you are right, the average Joe does not get there ACL reconstructed. A statement was made that collarbone fractures heal 100%of the time. Medical literature and research states differently. Make a case and argue using facts not false statements. You're undoubtedly more versed in the topic than I am, but would you say that a collarbone fracture heals right 99.9% of the time in an extremely healthy adult male receiving the best medical attention in the entire world? I've seen probably around a dozen collarbone fractures in my life between baseball, football, hiking, rock climbing, and soccer. None of them had any sort of complication or noticeable lasting impact as far as i could tell. Now I know kids are springy and the oldest person I've seen injured was probably around 24, but this seems like a non issue to me. This seems like the orthopedic version of an appendectomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 This threads turned into something of a Matrix-redux. Back and forth - reality - unreality. You said this.... No, I said that..... No, you said that - after I said this - because you'd thought something else.... I never thought that - so I couldnt have said it - the thought always comes before the words. Oh...really? Never mind then. I'd thought - you'd thought - something which apparently nobody thought of. So I'm unsure why I thought that. Hmmmmmmm...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: You're undoubtedly more versed in the topic than I am, but would you say that a collarbone fracture heals right 99.9% of the time in an extremely healthy adult male receiving the best medical attention in the entire world? IF we are going on the assumption that the individual has the following - generally healthy individual (no obesity, non smoker, no illicit drug use, good diet of macro/micro nutrients, etc) - no major metabolic disease that would compromise healing - no systemic bone pathology that would hinder bone healing and remodeling - received "appropriate medical care" (was not grossly mismanaged by medical professionals) Based on the medical literature/research on healing rates and non-unions, I would guesstimate that collarbone fractures would "heal right" 97-98+% of the time. Unfortunately, non unions do happen https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28099300 Quote BACKGROUND: The use of operative treatment for clavicular fractures is increasing, despite varying results in previous studies. The aim of this study was to compare plate fixation and nonoperative treatment for displaced midshaft clavicular fractures with respect to nonunion, adverse events, and shoulder function. METHODS: In this multicenter, prospective, randomized controlled trial, patients between 18 and 60 years old with a displaced midshaft clavicular fracture were randomized between nonoperative treatment and open reduction with internal plate fixation. The primary outcome was evidence of nonunion at 1 year. Other outcomes were secondary operations, arm function as measured with the Constant shoulder score and Disabilities of the Arm, Shoulder and Hand (DASH) score, pain, cosmetic results, and general health status. Outcomes were recorded at 6 weeks, 3 months, and 1 year following trauma. RESULTS: One hundred and sixty patients were randomized. The rate of nonunion was significantly higher in the nonoperatively treatedgroup than in the operatively treated group (23.1% compared with 2.4%; p < 0.0001), as was the rate of nonunion for which secondary plate fixation was performed (12.9% compared with 1.2%; p = 0.006). The rate of secondary operations was 27.4% in the operatively treated group (16.7% for elective plate removal) and 17.1% in the nonoperatively treated group (p = 0.18). Nineteen percent of the patients in the operatively treated group had persistent loss of sensation around the scar. No difference was found between the groups with respect to the Constant and DASH scores at all time points. CONCLUSIONS: For patients with a diaphyseal fracture of the clavicle displaced at least 1 shaft width, plate fixation improves the chances that the bone will heal; however, the rate of patients who need a second operation is considerable. In addition, the procedure does not improve shoulder function or general symptoms, and it does not decrease limitations compared with nonoperative treatment in a sling. My issue was never that Rodger's clavicle fracture would be healed, but was with this statement Quote Yes you sure implied that when you said he was coming off them. Collar bones heal 100% after a break. ....to which I have tried to show with references is blatantly false. If you are trying to make a point, it will always be best to use facts and not try to speak in absolute /outlandish terms that are made up/incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Leader said: This threads turned into something of a Matrix-redux. Back and forth - reality - unreality. You said this.... No, I said that..... No, you said that - after I said this - because you'd thought something else.... I never thought that - so I couldnt have said it - the thought always comes before the words. Oh...really? Never mind then. I'd thought - you'd thought - something which apparently nobody thought of. So I'm unsure why I thought that. Hmmmmmmm...... If it is too deep for you, then just simply move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 1 minute ago, squire12 said: If it is too deep for you, then just simply move on. Deep? It's barely moist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Let's get back to Rodgers contract, really nothing left to gain with the medical talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 All I'm gonna say on the injuries is that Aaron's play style makes him more prone to injuries than other quarterbacks in the 33-40 territory. It's another reason he shouldn't be considered for anything other than the most money ever. He doesn't deserve a cap-tied contract or any kind of groundbreaking deal (personnel decisions, cap percentage, etc.). I think anybody who doesn't hate me could agree that his play style DOES make him more prone to injury than others, and that is something that has to be taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 2 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: I think anybody who doesn't hate me could agree that his play style DOES make him more prone to injury than others, and that is something that has to be taken into account. While escaping the pocket and making something out of nothing is one of the things Aaron does best, I do actually prefer it when he is restricted to being in the pocket (calf injury 2014), he ends up taking more what the defence gives him, being more of a rhythm passer, rather than having that tendency to extend plays and go deep or get sacked. Whenever I have seen Aaron play poorly it is because he tries too much, especially early on and then never really gets his mojo going. I actually he'll mature into a better quarterback the older he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 2 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: All I'm gonna say on the injuries is that Aaron's play style makes him more prone to injuries than other quarterbacks in the 33-40 territory. It's another reason he shouldn't be considered for anything other than the most money ever. He doesn't deserve a cap-tied contract or any kind of groundbreaking deal (personnel decisions, cap percentage, etc.). I think anybody who doesn't hate me could agree that his play style DOES make him more prone to injury than others, and that is something that has to be taken into account. I'd be interest to see the data on injuries to QBs who get chased down scrambling rather than teed off on because they're statues in the pocket. Not saying I disagree, just that I'm not sure we've got the info to make that claim. Ignoring all the **** about whether Rodgers deserves a massive deal that's just regular massive or massive due to it being tied to the cap. . . What the hell is the point of extending him with 2 years left on his deal if it doesn't save us some cash in the short term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I'd be interest to see the data on injuries to QBs who get chased down scrambling rather than teed off on because they're statues in the pocket. Not saying I disagree, just that I'm not sure we've got the info to make that claim. Ignoring all the **** about whether Rodgers deserves a massive deal that's just regular massive or massive due to it being tied to the cap. . . What the hell is the point of extending him with 2 years left on his deal if it doesn't save us some cash in the short term? Certainly the time to extend Rodgers contract to have some more cap space for 2018 was in March. Extending now can help for 2019, but only marginally as any front loaded deal that puts more in 2018 just reduces the rollover into 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Is there a reason we're freaking the hell out over the number portion of this deal and not the fact that he reportedly wants a player option for every year of his deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Is there a reason we're freaking the hell out over the number portion of this deal and not the fact that he reportedly wants a player option for every year of his deal? I believe that I am on record as to not wanting anything to do with a player option for Rodgers. I think a few others are as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 43 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Is there a reason we're freaking the hell out over the number portion of this deal and not the fact that he reportedly wants a player option for every year of his deal? Is that really true? I saw that he may have wanted an opt out, but never saw anything about every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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