Who helped/hurt their stock the most so far?

[BleedTheClock]

Oh Mark Walton had a terrible combine. I expected him to run in the low 4.4's. He ran in the 4.6 range. #vomit

 

I still like him a lot, but the combine was a kick to his draft stock's nutsack.

[Iamcanadian]

5 hours ago, MWil23 said:

My biggest issue with Orlando Brown's combine was:

*He looked out of shape and like he'd been spending the last 2-3 months eating everything in sight and not working out. He didn't exactly look the part. 

I never expected him to test well, but he needed to at least look better than he did.

This pretty well sums up Orlando Brown, a picture is worth a thousand words and he looked completely out of shape at his weigh in. He had bigger breasts than most large breasted women and GM's have a hard time forgiving a prospect who shows up for a job interview total out of shape, which is what the Combine is. I have seen it time and time again, in following he draft for many, many years, that a prospect like him, will be out of the league in 3 years at the most. 

[ronjon1990]

32 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Oh Mark Walton had a terrible combine. I expected him to run in the low 4.4's. He ran in the 4.6 range. #vomit

 

I still like him a lot, but the combine was a kick to his draft stock's nutsack.

Think some of it might be related to his ankle surgery? I get that at the Combine he's expected to show up in shape, but 4.6 seems really really slow when comparing to his film. 

[Packerraymond]

I thought Josh Jackson had a worse combine than Orlando Brown. At least Brown looked like he knew how to block in the field drills, awful athletic numbers aside. There were at least a half a dozen times Josh Jackson had to stop a drill and start over because he didn't know how to back pedal. It was the craziest thing I've seen. He couldn't back pedal at anything close to game speed. As a primarily zone CB at Iowa, he looked undraftable to any team that isn't primarily a zone team. His workout numbers were fine, but he looked so uncomfortable doing anything other than catching the ball (former WR) it was so odd.

[Iamcanadian]

8 hours ago, reamer said:

Re: Carter, is anyone worried about the medical flag? That might put the damper on his stock.

I would be far more concerned with his lack of production and want to know why a prospect with such great physical ability, did not put up more impressive stats??? 

[JBURGE]

15 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I thought Josh Jackson had a worse combine than Orlando Brown. At least Brown looked like he knew how to block in the field drills, awful athletic numbers aside. There were at least a half a dozen times Josh Jackson had to stop a drill and start over because he didn't know how to back pedal. It was the craziest thing I've seen. He couldn't back pedal at anything close to game speed. As a primarily zone CB at Iowa, he looked undraftable to any team that isn't primarily a zone team. His workout numbers were fine, but he looked so uncomfortable doing anything other than catching the ball (former WR) it was so odd.

Dre Kirkpatrick was absolutely inept at backpedaling when he came out and still went 1st round. But yeah I agree, pretty much confirmed what I thought about not wanting him in GB, especially with the 1st

[BleedTheClock]

15 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

I would be far more concerned with his lack of production and want to know why a prospect with such great physical ability, did not put up more impressive stats??? 

Georgia didn't ask him to peel his ears back and attack that often. He played tremendous gap sound football, which is surprising given his athleticism and build. He looks like the kind of guy that'd fly up the field every play and create run lanes, but he's very composed and technically sound. He played 34 OLB and was dropped into coverage a lot more often than you'd think. Btw, he's a very capable cover guy for a 34 OLB. Carter also made a bunch of splash plays on special teams, especially when it came to blocking kicks. He's very composed on the field and doesn't play for stats. He plays within the Georgia scheme and it results in pedestrian stats. But I'm willing to bet he grades out on tape as one of the best edge players in the country in terms of assignment football. I have watched a lot of Lorenzo Carter to confirm/deny my love for him and have only grown more affectionate for his style of play. Despite his frame, he's an excellent run defender that doesn't get washed. He affects a lot of throws and when that QB gives a pure dropback, he gets there in a hurry. I'd like to see him incorporate a bull rush or an inside spin to counter his outside rip, but that's one of my only real concerns with him. Georgia's defense asked him to somewhat muddle his rush/aggression at the snap to ensure his gap was sound and the QB stayed in the pocket. He wasn't able to just fly up the field and create splash plays as a result. That's a little bit of an assumption, but if you watch him on obvious passing downs, he's a completely different animal in terms of how he attacks.

Reminds me a little bit of Osi Umenyiora but with more versatility (pass coverage).

[Kip Smithers]

16 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

By far and away, Orlando Brown has taken the biggest hit at the Combine and has shown himself to be a lazy prospect, who has done nothing to stay in shape, probably his whole life. 

He just went from a possible 1st rounder to a guy who will be lucky to see round 3. GM's absolutely hate prospects who do not stay in shape, they can never be starters at the next level, unless some kind of light goes off in his brain and the odds of that happening seem about 1000 to 1!!!

Dude was 450 pounds and has gotten to 345, and you’re gonna question his work ethic? Unless I’m missing something where his weight has fluctuated.

[BleedTheClock]

Orlando Brown had a terrible combine, but I'm still not significantly changing my grade on him. I saw a dominant run blocker that didn't give up any sacks on film. I saw him reach block to the second level with surprising ease. I saw him hustle down the field trying to get to the third level of the defense on an elongated running play. Is he susceptible to being beaten with speed? Is he the picture of great health? No and no, but if I can grab Orlando Brown in the 3rd round because of a bad combine, I run like a thief in the night. I don't care how jiggly his mantitties are as long as he can drive block people into the ground and pass set effectively. On the tape, I never once questioned his effort.

I would not argue that the combine didn't hurt him because it most certainly did in the eyes of scouts, but I'm still sticking to my claim that he's going to be a great OT for a long time.

[Ozzy]

6 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I get this to some degree, but it’s 225lbs man. That’s light weight for a regular lifter his size.  To give perspective, this is the same weight proportionally as a 200lb man benching 135.  

https://birdbreakdown.com/2014/02/27/are-long-arms-bad-for-bench-pressing-not-so-fast/

This study also shows that the whole long arms thing doesn’t really hold water either.

All of these guys significantly outperformed him on the bench though, Troutman and Jones doubled his total in fact.  Strong and slow is one thing, weak and slow is a whole different animal.

I’d challenge you to name someone who performed worse in the physical testing portion.

Look back around the 2000s till now, you are probably right, his performance was bad, and is Historically bad for a OT or OG the more I look into it.  A few guys who had not great 40 times but some had impressive bench numbers.  And the arm length thing I still think is real to some degree but is not everything, but Cordy Glenn with longer arms than Orlando Brown, 35 3/4" had freaking 31 reps.  Rob Havenstein who I am not a huge fan of did not do all that well either at the combine, and he is a starting OT.  And Marcus Gilbert did not do great and is a solid player as well, but he had the bench to back it up something Brown does not have.  So yeah overall it is disappointing I feel for a player like Orlando Brown.

 

Josh Oglesby 6-7 338 5.75, 22 reps

Shawn Andrews 6-4 366, 5.49, 27 reps

Rob Havenstein 6-7 321, 5.46, 16 reps

Marcus Gilbert 6-6 330, 5.46, 30 reps

Oday Aboushi 6-5 308, 5.45, 17 reps

Cordy Glenn 6-5 345, 5.15, 31 reps 

 

 

A few guards, but all did really well in the bench, and Mama did not take part and ran an awful 40, but did have a better vertical and Broad jump than Orlando Brown but a worst 3 cone and the same shuttle.  Mama did go undrafted after being a pretty solid college prospect I thought.  

Damien Mama 6-3 334, 5.84 DNP reps

Jeno James 6-4 320, 5.66, 34 reps

Floyd Womack 6-4 328, 5.57 23 reps

Max Jean Gilles 6-3 320, 5.54, 27 reps

Toniu Fonoti 6-4, 349, 5.53, 32 reps

David Yankey 6-5 315, 5.48, 22 reps

 

 

Will see what happens with Orlando Brown, because on the field I would not say his guy is weak as can be, just like some guys who run a great 40 do not play that fast on the field.  He is a strong blocker and shows good power at times and is quite athletic in pass protection I feel for his size.  Surprised how bad his combine is yes, never expected him to do that poorly in the bench, and I agree being bad in both speed and power is not good.

 

Bruce Campbell at OT was 6-6 320, 4.85, 34 reps and 32" vertical, that does not mean he can play.   Just like Alejandro Villanueva not being at the combine with numbers to show, that does not prove he cannot play either.  So will see where it goes, I like the kid and think he has played at a high level for a very long time and being a RS JR has room to develop still and grow as a player.  Has a good personality and head on his shoulders I think.  Not sure how he worked out at Oklahoma, but if he was not pushed hard because his play was good enough, wonder how much better he could be with a better workout program maybe.  Guy was 450 pounds in 8th grade so yeah have some muscle building to do and is obviously not complete even now.  

 

 

 

 

[Ozzy]

Some of the prospects that stood out to me and I have raised in the rankings overall since the combine.  

 

*Marcus Davenport UTSA SR DE - Hard pressed to find one who did better for himself at the Senior bowl and combine, lock 1st rounder now when few before the season knew his name.  Great to see from a kid who stood out even as a freshman with that freak show length.

*Denzel Ward Ohio State JR CB - For sure moving him up after that kind of workout, especially being the most natural cover man in the draft with that kind of speed

*Josh Allen Wyoming JR QB - Amazing on the move throwing the football, sure has things to work on but hard to not be impressed with his passing ability.  

*Tremaine Edmunds Virginia Tech JR LB - Thought of him as the best OLB in the draft before this, now he locked it all in, especially at that freak show size

*Shaquem Griffin UCF SR LB - Great to see for sure, was a 7th rounder coming into it before the Senior bowl and combine, now is more of a mid rounder, great showing by him and obviously awesome story.  

*Rashaad Penny San Diego State SR RB - For sure after Senior bowl and his combine, kid is easily top 5 RBs and most likely 2nd round pick.  

*Mike Gesicki Penn State SR TE - Some still doubt him but kid is a freak show athlete and obviously showed that, great athletic talent for his size

*Connor Williams Texas JR OT/OG - Showed he is a better athlete than some thought for sure, impressed and was among the best OLs at a few events

*Kolton Miller UCLA RS JR - Climbing up the boards at the end of the season, now shows he is an elite athlete to combo with that great size.  

*DJ Chark LSU SR WR - Blazing WR and after a fine senior year has really helped his stock and should now be a 2nd round pick at worst most likely.  

*Terrell Edmunds Virginia Tech JR S - Really impressive speed and strength for a guy 6-2 220, liked him before the draft but for sure now should be a lock 2nd round pick.  

*Tre Flowers Oklahoma State SR S - Not super impressed with his season but not bad outing for a 6-3 safety showing that kind of speed.  

*Natrell Jamerson Wisconsin SR S - Thought he played well this year, tough DB and showed surprising speed and strength

*Brian O'Neill Pitt JR - Another big athletic tackle who impressed with his time I think.

*Royce Freeman Oregon SR RB - Impressed with more than a few physical events, showed a lot more speed and quickness than some though, especially at 229

*Marquez Valdes-Scantling USF SR WR - Great time by him especially at 6-4, liked him this year a lot in terms of his potential upside and many will take a second look at him now.  

*Dorian O'Daniel Clemson SR LB - Made a rise up the OLB rankings for sure with his speed at the position and quickness he showed, especially with how well he played during the year.

*Avonte Maddox Pitt SR CB - Was a tough aggressive playmaker in the season, this workout will for sure get him as a mid round pick, great showing by him and fine numbers he put up.  

 

 

 

 

*Prospects that I found really stood out to me after being some what under the radar before the combine:

 

Ade Aruna Tulane SR DE - Great showing by him, especially for such a big long guy.  Will for sure make many take a second look at his tape, was easily one of the more standout DLs at the combine for sure who were relatively unknown beforehand.

 

Dylan Cantrell Texas Tech SR WR - Was at or near the top in more than a few events at WR, super impressive for 6-3 226.  Nice showing by him, played ok during the season, never pegged him as this good of an athlete, could interest people late in the draft now.  

 

Troy Apke Penn State SR S - Honestly nothing on the field made him really stand out this season to me, but this workout will totally make people go back and take a second look at him.  Super impressive times for a safety that is for sure.  

 

 

 

 

[jebrick]

10 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Troy Apke Penn State SR S

Apke is a track athlete playing football.  He is allergic to contact and tackling.

[Ozzy]

38 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Apke is a track athlete playing football.  He is allergic to contact and tackling.

So then I am not the only one who had no clue who he was before the combine?  And I watched Penn State play multiple times this year, no idea he was even a prospect based on how he played out there.  Will be curious were Apke goes in the draft after this, but like I said people will totally take a second look at the tape just because of his numbers he put up.  Really wish Marcus Allen would have ran the 40, he at times is a great tackler but had a some what down season this past year in terms of playmaking.  

[Tugboat]

Aside from the obvious +/- guys (Shaquem Griffen, Barkley blowing it up, Orlando Brown dropping a floater, etc.), and the guys who i think posted results that might be a bit misleading about what they can actually do on the football field...Probably the biggest "winner" for me at the combine was Courtland Sutton.  Liked him before the combine, but had some nagging concerns about his athleticism.  He shot those straight down with some really solid results.  I think it puts a lot of his success on the field into better context, as he's actually a better athlete than i thought he might be.  That kind of thing is where the combine is most interesting and valuable to me.

[jebrick]

34 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

So then I am not the only one who had no clue who he was before the combine?  And I watched Penn State play multiple times this year, no idea he was even a prospect based on how he played out there.  Will be curious were Apke goes in the draft after this, but like I said people will totally take a second look at the tape just because of his numbers he put up.  Really wish Marcus Allen would have ran the 40, he at times is a great tackler but had a some what down season this past year in terms of playmaking.  

I should say that you are not wrong in that the combine helped his stock for the draft.  Looking at film will solve that.  One year of playing.  Straight-line speed misses a ton of tackles.   Someone may take a shot at him late but I just do not see anything in his film that says he will be successful in the NFL.  Even as a gunner.