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#2 Most Important Player on the Packers


#2 Most Important Player  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is the second most important player on the Packers

    • Mike Daniels
      7
    • Nick Perry
      4
    • Clay Matthews
      2
    • Davon House
      1
    • Jordy Nelson
      1
    • David Bakhtiari
      13
    • Martellus Bennet
      1
    • Other
      0


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9 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

Mike Daniels isn't talented enough to be the 2nd most important player.  He's probably the most overrated player on this board.

 

Gimme Perry and Matthews before either of Bak and Daniels.  Rodgers would be really really good without Bak.

Agree a lot with the above, but this will sound crazy.....Davon House.  We need him to come through and man that spot.  If Davon House can play at a decent NFL caliber CB the rest of the DBs will be incredibly solid.  If our DBs are solid then our 1st round, overpaid OLBs should be able to get to the opposing QBs.

If Bak goes down- we have Spriggs

If Daniels goes down- He's overrated anyway

If Davon goes down- we have at least one 'rented mule' playing CB.  A lot revolves around Mr. House.

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14 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

Mike Daniels isn't talented enough to be the 2nd most important player.  He's probably the most overrated player on this board.

 

Gimme Perry and Matthews before either of Bak and Daniels.  Rodgers would be really really good without Bak.

I get what you mean, Rodgers sets his guys up to succeed. He manipulates the pocket unlike any other QB. 

Daniels does the same thing for the defense. Our ILB woes the past several years are much more apparent if he isn't in front of them. Though I will agree, for a guy that doesn't offer much pass rush, he has gotten a ton of love. A lot of that is attributed to his work ethic and attitude about the game, imo. We've been missing nasty on this defense for toooo long. Mike Daniels brings that.

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I get your line of thinking, but if spriggs is actually that good he can just play RG, and worst comes to worst Bulaga can play LT.  Flipping that, if the rest of our CBs suck (not a guarantee) that doesn't make House better or even that much more important because he isn't really amazing to begin with.

 

I guess I don't agree with the premise that this is a measure of how bad it will be to lose the guy to injury.  

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1 minute ago, packerrfan74 said:

Daniels does the same thing for the defense.

Not really.  He helps the other front 7 guys at times.  He doesn't help the secondary by providing pressure.

 

2 minutes ago, packerrfan74 said:

Our ILB woes the past several years are much more apparent if he isn't in front of them.

Maybe, maybe not.  Maybe we just have had bad front 7s and the weak link at ILB has been exposed.  He's a good player, and the positional job of the NT in our scheme is to help out the ILBs.  I'm not sure he's really exceptional at that aspect of it.

 

2 minutes ago, packerrfan74 said:

A lot of that is attributed to his work ethic and attitude about the game, imo. We've been missing nasty on this defense for toooo long. Mike Daniels brings that.

This is the common thread on this board that I'm tired of.  We've had Mike Daniels for 6 years.  Nothing about his attitude is going to suddenly rub off on the defense all of a sudden.  Either he's cemented himself as the leader of the D right now and everyone is following his lead, or he isn't and people just know that he's a mean guy on the field who is into comic books off the field.  If it's the former, he's the leader of a bad D.  If it's the latter, he isn't the leader we assume him to be.  Which is fine!  He doen't need to be more than he is - a vastly over-performing 4th round pick.

The "mean streak" and his "nastiness" are just styles of play that help him perform best.  His belief that one must be nasty to have a good defense is simply wrong.  The tampa 2 bucs and bears were never nasty.  The seahawks are nasty, and so were the 86 Bears. All were/are all time defenses. 

Daniels is a solid B/B+ player.   Suh or McCoy or Dareus or Donald are the types of impact UTs, and it's really hard to be an impact NT in the NFL without rushing the passer.

 

To me, the only choices are Perry or Matthews.  Big plays turn football games, and both are big play creators.  Who do you think is better? It's close, so choose that guy.

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7 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

I think Rodgers would survive and manage to make plays with Bulaga moved over to left tackle and Spriggs playing right tackle.  I don't think our offense would survive too well without Jordy.  I think right now, to this team, considering everything, Jordy Nelson is the second most important, at least on offense, considering who would fill in for whom. 

I still think Perry/Daniels/House/Clinton-Dix and maybe even Matthews health are more important THIS SEASON to our long term success than anybody other than Rodgers. 

Ah I suck at reading, I read it as the second best player on the team, yeah if Bak goes down we are covered, Perry/Clay heck no.

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My choice is David. He's elevated himself to one of Thompson's best four picks (in my opinion). Take him away, that offense doesn't click the way it needs to in order to compensate for any of our defense's deficiencies while keeping pace with the offenses in ATL, NE, etc.

Bahk shuts things down. Quietly my second or third favorite player on this roster.

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6 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

Not really.  He helps the other front 7 guys at times.  He doesn't help the secondary by providing pressure.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  Maybe we just have had bad front 7s and the weak link at ILB has been exposed.  He's a good player, and the positional job of the NT in our scheme is to help out the ILBs.  I'm not sure he's really exceptional at that aspect of it.

 

My first problem is that Daniels isn't a NT. He's an UT. That's what a 3-tech is.

I also think the perception of Daniels and Daniels stats would be significantly different if he was asked to carry heavy reps in the pressure packages. When you have Clay, Perry, Jones, and Peppers, you don't need Daniels to carry those reps and you'd rather rest him because you see a serious drop off on the non-pressure reps without him. The problem you run into is that about 65% of sacks come in those pressure looks. You cut a guy's stats if you never let him pin his ears back. 

You see the opposite effect with Lowry this year, or with Datone in previous years. When guys play the majority of their reps in the pressure packages, you see inflated stats.

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so a player doesn't play in the pressure package?  Because he isn't good at pressure.  And that makes him a better player than I believe him to be.

 

It's just the nature of the position.  It's not that valuable unless you're capable of pressuring as well.  He's great at what he does.

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22 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

so a player doesn't play in the pressure package?  Because he isn't good at pressure.  And that makes him a better player than I believe him to be.

 

It's just the nature of the position.  It's not that valuable unless you're capable of pressuring as well.  He's great at what he does.

I don't know what your definition of valuable is but if it's like mine I think you're way off on Daniels. Fwiw he didn't say he was bad at pressure. He said the roster had guys better suited who...aren't good early downs. So use them fresh when they work best. And him the opposite. I don't think it's quite the indictment you think honestly. 

 

Think Mike would be 8/9 sack guy on a lot of teams where they run 4 man front at UT. And I don't think I'm alone on that at all. 

 

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It's just that across the NFL 3rd down is the most important down.  This roster would be constructed very differently if Daniels was an impact 3rd down player.  We would benefit from adding mediocre run stuffing DTs because it would free up Daniels to throw haymakers on 3rd down and pressure situations.  Instead, this team uses Dean Lowry and Datone Jones.

 

If a player is one of the best guys on 3rd down, he's more valuable.  And Daniels doesn't play in the pressure packages.  Perry and Matthews are coming off my board before Daniels is considered.  

Daniels just strikes me as one of those guys in the NFL that every team would absolutely LOVE to have, but it there was an expansion draft, he wouldn't be protected, and he wouldn't even be a first rounder because DTs who can't pass rush well don't tilt the field.

This is sidetracking the "most valuable player" convo, so if mods want to split it into some "Daniels is slightly overrated" thread, be my guest.

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Oh no way on the expansion thing.

Daniels is DL. He can't play 12 billion snaps..feels like the decision was made like I said before, use your guys who can't make it on early downs against the run on the late downs. Keep them off the field in liability situations and keep them fresh to chase the QB. Daniels excels early and could generate 3rd down pressure but he can't play every snap. So keep him fresh for when he's best and let the other guys take those reps.

I feel it's unfair to say he can't get any pressure that's why he doesn't play those snaps. I think it's more nuanced than that.

I don't think he got paid on accident either. They knew his value. That's based on other teams wanting a guy around that mark. He's also got a leadership role and has mostly been on the field.

I know sacks and impact plays reign supreme. I get it. But that's not all football is.

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