Where does Richard Sherman rank among corners on the all-time list?

[JAF-N72EX]

22 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Not really. 1st of all they put 2011 because that’s when he entered the league. So that stat starts from when he entered the league. He’s been good from pretty much the get go. It ain’t a weird cut off. Harris has not been as good as Sherman, come on now. Even in passer rating he has the best since he entered the league even though the 2-3 years dude didn’t get thrown at.

That's not the cut-off that I was referring too. I was talking about the min. cut-off in both of them(300 and 230). They find these weird cut-offs without context regarding certain players that make them look good. Again, they do this in relation to whatever the hot-topic is at that point in time in order to garner retweets and clicks.

They posted the first stats about Sherman after he was released because it was a hot-topic. Then they posted the other one after the Rams acquired Peters and Talib. You don't think that's a bit odd? I wonder what their numbers would look like if they used 350 and 250 min instead in both of those comparison charts. 

[drew39k]

Without looking at stats I'd put him next to nnamdi asomuga.

 

And to those "since x year" stats, they are very misleading. You give the player you are attempting to highlight spotlight and eliminate competitors by disregarding great seasons they may have has just before sherm entered the league.

 

A good example of this is looking at which rb lead the league in yfs since they have been in the league.

[lancerman]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:05 PM, Carmen Cygni said:

Top 10-15. Sherman is spectacular, has great technique, instincts, and excellent knowledge.

 

 

The ability to shut down one side of the field shouldn't be overlooked though. Considering how often offense's prefer fieldside reads and being able to erase the sidelines there is crucial. Thomas over the top was critical, yes, but there's still a lot of ground to cover for a CB with just a single high safety as opposed to two deep shells. Kam was essentially a free defender/lurker more in tune w/ Seattle's Under Front and was not used as a typical deep safety in those respects.

It shouldn't, at the same time when a coach can basically say "he's there best guy, I'm taking my best guy away from him for a more favorable matchup, that matters too. Peak Revis could go on the best guy and take him away all game no matter where he went. I have to put a guy like that above Sherman. Your stats are going to be better when you are covering a 2nd or 3rd WR most of the time on big plays.

[Carmen Cygni]

On 3/13/2018 at 2:06 AM, lancerman said:

It shouldn't, at the same time when a coach can basically say "he's there best guy, I'm taking my best guy away from him for a more favorable matchup, that matters too. Peak Revis could go on the best guy and take him away all game no matter where he went. I have to put a guy like that above Sherman. Your stats are going to be better when you are covering a 2nd or 3rd WR most of the time on big plays.

Which is why I rated Sherman in the top 15 and not the top 5 or 10.

[thebestever6]

How do you do this its a different league. How do we grade night train Lane?

[JAF-N72EX]

3 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

How do you do this its a different league. How do we grade night train Lane?

With how much the NFL has change since his era (and most others), all you can do is compare him to his contemporaries during his time to get a baseline and go from there.  

[AkronsWitness]

On 3/8/2018 at 9:48 PM, JustAnotherFan said:

I like Sherman but the lack of respect to Chris Harris in this thread is appalling to say the least. Especially considering the fact that a valid argument could be made that he has actually been better than Sherman over the course of their careers. 

Agreed but he doesnt run his mouth 24/7 like Sherman does so his name doesnt get headlines or the national love.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

9 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Agreed but he doesnt run his mouth 24/7 like Sherman does so his name doesnt get headlines or the national love.

Unfortunately, that's how it is now. Talib's constant antics have hindered Harris too in that very same way as well. He has done so many dumb things that when you think of the No-fly-zone, Talib's idiocy is the first thing to come to people's minds.

[showtime]

I'm not a huge Champ Bailey guy.  I think Sherman at his best is better than Bailey at his best without a doubt, but Bailey has more longevity.  And I'm not talking about any numbers or anything, just watching both guys play.  I'll never forget how Jerry Porter used to absolutely roast Champ Bailey.

[JAF-N72EX]

8 minutes ago, showtime said:

I'm not a huge Champ Bailey guy.  I think Sherman at his best is better than Bailey at his best without a doubt, but Bailey has more longevity.  And I'm not talking about any numbers or anything, just watching both guys play.  I'll never forget how Jerry Porter used to absolutely roast Champ Bailey.

Porter was a dangerous deep threat though...but yeah. I'll never forget when Bailey was credited for 2 INT's that should have never went on record. One happened on a hailmary attempt that should have went to Green(?). Both Bailey and Green went for the ball and Green grabbed it first but Bailey basically took it out of his hands and came down with it. Another happened in '07 or '08 when they were playing the Chargers and Rivers through the ball that clearly(no debate) hit the ground and bounced before Bailey grabbed it. Unfortunately, there was an issue with the replay system and so the refs couldn't overturn the call. 

[showtime]

3 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Porter was a dangerous deep threat though...but yeah. I'll never forget when Bailey was credited for 2 INT's that should have never went on record. One happened on a hailmary attempt that should have went to Green(?). Both Bailey and Green went for the ball and Green grabbed it first but Bailey basically took it out of his hands and came down with it. Another happened in '07 or '08 when they were playing the Chargers and Rivers through the ball that clearly(no debate) hit the ground and bounced before Bailey grabbed it. Unfortunately, there was an issue with the replay system and so the refs couldn't overturn the call. 

Jerry Porter was a really good player, but there's no excuse for the biblical beatdowns he would give Champ Bailey.  Bailey was constantly talked about as a 'shutdown CB' and I rarely saw that from him.  He's nowhere near the player Sherman or Revis were at their best, imo.  Bailey just has the longevity and he's always had tons of respect around the league/fans.  Bailey probably had a few seasons were he was really great, but other than that, he was always just a really good CB in my book, but nothing all that special or all-time great worthy.

[JAF-N72EX]

19 minutes ago, showtime said:

Jerry Porter was a really good player, but there's no excuse for the biblical beatdowns he would give Champ Bailey.  Bailey was constantly talked about as a 'shutdown CB' and I rarely saw that from him.  He's nowhere near the player Sherman or Revis were at their best, imo.  Bailey just has the longevity and he's always had tons of respect around the league/fans.  Bailey probably had a few seasons were he was really great, but other than that, he was always just a really good CB in my book, but nothing all that special or all-time great worthy.

Yeah, I agree. It seems like you and were kind of seeing the same things in Bailey. During his time he was very consistent in terms of being a smart, conservative defender that used the sideline for help better than probably any CB in recent times but I have never considered him a shutdown corner(outside of 3 seperate years). Hall of fame, no doubt. But I never thought that he ever the absolute best at his position during any period. His longevity of consistency was nearly second to none though.

My only knock on Sherman is that he has benefited alot from playing alot of zone coverage with both underneath and over the top help( I value man coverage over zone). But I can't knock the fact that if I were to compare him to other corners in that same situation that have benefited the same way over the same period that he is one of the best ever. This is my problem with Sherman over Chris Harris. But I digress on that. I don't wanna go own that road in this thread.

[VigilantZombie]

I don't view him as  a HOF CB.  His best years were rarely against #1 WR's.  He played 1 side of the field, didn't move around, never proved an ability to play in other areas of the field.  

Having said that, he was still a good CB.  I just never viewed him as a great one.  His stats were built on 'convenient' circumstances.

[LaserFocus]

Richard Sherman is a good example of a potential future HOF candidate who could be impacted by the mistakes of Terrell Owens. In his mind, Sherman may expect an invite from Canton within a certain time frame. I could easily see the same moronic whining Owens pulled, and the HOF committee would be within their right to pick candidates who are both credible and grateful.

[Soko]

On 4/3/2018 at 3:33 PM, wwhickok said:

I don't view him as  a HOF CB.  His best years were rarely against #1 WR's.  He played 1 side of the field, didn't move around, never proved an ability to play in other areas of the field.  

Hard to hold that against him when it’s the scheme he played in. And he did follow receivers sometimes, just not as much as others like Deion or Revis. 

It’s still a testament when he single handedly made one of the GOAT QBs basically refuse to even look to his side of the field.