Where does Richard Sherman rank among corners on the all-time list?

[VigilantZombie]

On 6/12/2018 at 12:40 AM, Yin-Yang said:

Hard to hold that against him when it’s the scheme he played in. And he did follow receivers sometimes, just not as much as others like Deion or Revis. 

It’s still a testament when he single handedly made one of the GOAT QBs basically refuse to even look to his side of the field.

He didn't make anyone refuse to look his way.  The fact that he played only one side of the field made it very easy to exploit the Seattle Secondary.  When he did cover top notch receivers, he typically got burnt.  Even against Antonio Brown, he was constantly grabbing Brown, there were lots of uncalled PI's and holding calls.  In fact you can look at him throughout his career and see that when he "shuts guys down' it's more often than not because he is grabbing them in their route and not getting called for it.

Sherman is certainly better than average but he isn't anywhere close to as good as Revis was in his prime or Deion in his prime and right now there's probably 10 CBs better than him in this league. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

He didn't make anyone refuse to look his way.  The fact that he played only one side of the field made it very easy to exploit the Seattle Secondary. 

Which is why teams routinely fail to "exploit" the Seattle secondary, right?

When he did cover top notch receivers, he typically got burnt.  Even against Antonio Brown, he was constantly grabbing Brown, there were lots of uncalled PI's and holding calls.  In fact you can look at him throughout his career and see that when he "shuts guys down' it's more often than not because he is grabbing them in their route and not getting called for it.

Do you have a source for how he fared against "top notch" receivers vs. when he lined up on his own side against #2's? Also, the last part is just you complaining that Sherman toes the line successfully. All CB's do it - Revis included.

Sherman is certainly better than average but he isn't anywhere close to as good as Revis was in his prime or Deion in his prime and right now there's probably 10 CBs better than him in this league. 

This is just your opinion and it's horrible.

 

[Soko]

4 hours ago, wwhickok said:

He didn't make anyone refuse to look his way.

Re-watch that early season game from a couple seasons back vs Green Bay (in Seattle, IIRC). Rodgers didn’t even look to his side of the field, even with Jordy there.

4 hours ago, wwhickok said:

  The fact that he played only one side of the field made it very easy to exploit the Seattle Secondary.

Yeah, the Seattle secondary was very easily exploitable, right...

4 hours ago, wwhickok said:

  When he did cover top notch receivers, he typically got burnt.

Proof? I don’t recall that happening with any sort of consistency. Not that it never happened, but all the greats get burned at some point. 

4 hours ago, wwhickok said:

  Even against Antonio Brown, he was constantly grabbing Brown, there were lots of uncalled PI's and holding calls.  In fact you can look at him throughout his career and see that when he "shuts guys down' it's more often than not because he is grabbing them in their route and not getting called for it.

Darrelle Revis is fine, though? Both guys are physical corners, they create contact. Sometimes they got calls, but they often didn’t. 

4 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Sherman is certainly better than average but he isn't anywhere close to as good as Revis was in his prime or Deion in his prime and right now there's probably 10 CBs better than him in this league. 

He’s not Prime Time and he wasn’t in a system that allowed him to be shutdown all the time like Revis, but he was a much better playmaker than the latter and they had similar coverage stats for their best years. 

I pray you’re saying that there are 10 better CBs than current Sherman. Because you’re dreaming if you think there’s 10 better right now than his prime years. Revis wasn’t so hot at age 30 either (return to the Jets). 

[BleedTheClock]

It's so hard to place CB's in an all-time discussion because there are way more variables at CB than any other position. It's hard to determine what coverage a defense is supposed to be running, it's hard to tell if someone gets open if the QB doesn't get the WR the football, and a game where a cornerback has literally no stats could be one of the best performances by a CB ever. INT #'s are flukey and irrelevant for the most part, guys with high tackle numbers often give up easy cheap completions, and some guys play in zone instead of man, making their jobs much easier.

I refuse to rank all-time CB's because it's just so darn difficult to actually determine. There are variables at other positions, but you don't really get to see a CB's dominance on display the way you do for a WR/DE/RB/LB/S. A dominant CB rarely has his name called unless the QB makes a dumb decision with the football.

[VigilantZombie]

No i wasnt defending Revis for getting away with PI. But imo it happened more often with Sherman.

[VigilantZombie]

On 6/13/2018 at 12:49 PM, Darth Pees said:

 

Youre the last person that should be calling someones opinion horrible. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

10 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Youre the last person that should be calling someones opinion horrible. 

Good rebuttal to everything Yin and I said.

[VigilantZombie]

5 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

Good rebuttal to everything Yin and I said.

What you said is pretty much nonsense. Do i have specific stats? No, however ive watched him play through the years and the evidence is on the field. He is a very good corner but imo, was never elite. Oh and youre right, everything i said was my opinion. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

15 hours ago, wwhickok said:

What you said is pretty much nonsense. Do i have specific stats? No, however ive watched him play through the years and the evidence is on the field. He is a very good corner but imo, was never elite. Oh and youre right, everything i said was my opinion. 

lol

[DaBoys]

On 3/8/2018 at 11:34 AM, MWil23 said:

In the modern era (Sorry Night Train Lane and Willie Brown), I'd say behind, in no particular order:

*Charles Woodson

*Rod Woodson

*Deion Sanders

*Champ Bailey

*Mike Haynes

*Mel Blount

*Darrell Green

*Revis

Then you get into territory where he COULD be argued, like Aeneas Williams territory.

Probably Top 10, definitely Top 15.

Others to consider:

Patrick Peterson

Joe Haden

Mel Renfro

Ty Law

Ronde Barber

Nnamdi Asoscrabble

Sam Madison?

Patrick Surtain?

Dre Bly?

Asante Samuel?

Frank Minnifield

 

 

[DaBoys]

Where does Terrence Newman go?

[Malik]

On 6/16/2018 at 7:04 AM, DaBoys said:

Others to consider:

Patrick Peterson

Joe Haden

Mel Renfro

Ty Law

Ronde Barber

Nnamdi Asoscrabble

Sam Madison?

Patrick Surtain?

Dre Bly?

Asante Samuel?

Frank Minnifield

 

 

Ronde Barber really is a great forgotten player.

[ET80]

On 6/16/2018 at 6:04 AM, DaBoys said:

Nnamdi Asoscrabble

I wouldn't put Aso on the list. He was a fine CB for the Raiders, but the team around him was so bad, you could isolate him to an island and attack the other side for a ton of success. Once he got to Philly, teams had no choice but to challenge him, and they found out he could bleed profusely if you punched him a few times. 

He's like Kevin Love in Minnesota - simply the only reasonable figure on a bad team, so he looked better than he actually was.