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Browns trade for Tyrod Taylor

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58 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Because maybe none of them are polished? Because you find red flags in the most pro ready guy? Because the more raw prospect has a higher ceiling? Because the pro ready guy lacks intangibles? 

You're oversimplifying the draft. 「Just draft the best one that can start」 isn't a strategy. 

None of the quarterbacks in this draft can start opening day for the Browns in 2018? 

I said take the one that is more polished than someone that is so underdeveloped he won't be able to start for the Browns opening day. 

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7 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

It’s fine to say getting Taylor is a culture statement requiring an overpay or to say that Taylor is the bridge guy you want to overpay for.  I don’t agree I think the 65 pick is nowhere near worth it but at least someone is making a value judgment.  

What isn’t borne out is the statement that CLE had to do this because they couldn’t guarantee they could get a 1-year stopgap.     Barring offseason freak injuries a couple or even 3 teams likely get that.  And there’s likely 1-2 guys left in the cold and have to take pure backup positions.   A team who doesn’t mind being patient will get to choose their guy from the last 2-3 stopgaps left standing.  Given that it’s crazy that some ppl want to say there’s no overpay or that CLE couldn’t guarantee getting one of those QB. The #’s don’t lie.  

Dude, I get it. The numbers are there. 

I’m saying it makes clear and perfect sense, at least to me, that the Browns don’t really want a guy like McCarron or Bridgewater being the mentor to their young QB. It’s perfectly within the realm of reason that the Browns don’t want just any of those guys (that we’re just assuming fall into the same category as far as what the Browns are looking for), and wanted a specific one or few. You can assume they would, I’d be inclined to assume otherwise at this point. 

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2 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

None of the quarterbacks in this draft can start opening day for the Browns in 2018? 

I said take the one that is more polished than someone that is so underdeveloped he won't be able to start for the Browns opening day. 

No, you said and I quote, “take the one ready to start from day one”. That’s quite different than “none of them are capable of starting opening day for the Browns in 2018”. 

Again, there’s a litany of reasons why a team wouldn’t draft the pro-ready guy over the raw-guy. Alex Smith was more pro-ready than Aaron Rodgers. Since I have to preface everything in this thread when I use examples - obviously that doesn’t mean any of these guys will be Smith/Rodgers - but reasons exist. 

I’d imagine they don’t want to David Carr the youngster and annihilate his career path. 

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@lancerman

It’s getting late and this is going around in circles, so apologies for being snippy. We disagree on Taylor’s ability and evidently on team building strategy (0-16 vs slow build upwards). All well and good. 

FYI, my Kurt Warner example worked and you can insert any player that failed in his first stint into that and it’d be just as correct!

Edited by Yin-Yang

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14 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Because I thought it was simple enough you’d understand it without blowing it out of context, my fault. 

Aqib Talib, Wes Welker, Legarrette Blount, Marcus Peters, Corey Dillon, and Chris Hogan all suck - otherwise why would their first team move on from them? 

The logic is horrendous. You know it is.

We’ll agree to disagree on Tyrod’s ability. I’ll let you keep using the “it’s obvious to anyone that watches” cop out. 

But the idiotic mentality that going 0-16 is better than actually trying is insane, especially when we’re talking about the same team that virtually did that the last two years. 

Quote where I said he’d be like Kurt Warner...

Strawman is just what you’ve been doing this whole time. We discuss Tyrod Taylor to the Browns, you use some stupid premise that because he didn’t workout in Buffalo that he’s bad, I use Kurt Warner as an easy example, now all you can do it whine about how Kurt Warner is being brought up at all. 

Dude, just admit your statement was stupid and move on. Hell, your favorite team is hosting two Buffalo Bills who must obviously suck if they were willing to let them go. 

Yeah, the “business perspective” of “let’s keep doing what we’re doing, because that’s better than trying something new”...

You’re hilariously dodging things now by making up fake arguments and arguing points that don’t even have anything to do with what’s being said. Thanks for playing.

1. Very different. None of them were QB's. None of them have the value of a QB on his rookie deal. You do know the NFL is a little different when it comes to that position? Like it's incredibly rare for a team to jettison their starting QB who is presumably very good for no real reason without a viable back up. My logic is sound, every argument you've made in regards to this point was at best terrible and betting on a rare situation or worse misleading. You really should have just quit on this one.

2. Going 0-16, retaining capital, and getting better draft picks is just pure logically better if you have zero prospects of a Super Bowl. 

3. That's not a strawman. He didn't work out on one team, stats show he really struggles when he is forced to play to win, there is evidence that he's not a good QB. That's called supporting an argument. You did in fact use the Kurt Warner example. It implies a hell of a lot when you try to make that comparison. I'll give you that you were trying to use an extreme to make a point, but even not using extremes your point is a rarity especially at that specific position. Again you are still saying that the Browns would be making a mistake to field someone incompetent (Tyrod is anyways but we'll ignore that for now), that it's a bad idea to go 0-16, and you are comparing him to Warner AND OTHER PLAYERS AT DIFFERENT POSITIONS to say he could end up being a lot better..... and then saying I'm making an assumption that you are expecting him to not be a space filler. 

4. You made the argument.....

Edited by lancerman

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1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

@lancerman

It’s getting late and this is going around in circles, so apologies for being snippy. We disagree on Taylor’s ability and evidently on team building strategy (0-16 vs slow build upwards). All well and good. 

FYI, my Kurt Warner example worked and you can insert any player that failed in his first stint into that and it’d be just as correct!

After making my last snippy post I apologize for being snippy too. My stupid contact lens got stuck in my eye and it took 3 hours to get it out and I'm more ornery than Bobby Boucher's alligator right now. 

But yeah Tyrod sucks and the Browns are just wasting their time.

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1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

No, you said and I quote, 「take the one ready to start from day one」. That's quite different than 「none of them are capable of starting opening day for the Browns in 2018」. 

Again, there's a litany of reasons why a team wouldn't draft the pro-ready guy over the raw-guy. Alex Smith was more pro-ready than Aaron Rodgers. Since I have to preface everything in this thread when I use examples - obviously that doesn't mean any of these guys will be Smith/Rodgers - but reasons exist. 

I'd imagine they don't want to David Carr the youngster and annihilate his career path. 

Which is before you said "Because maybe none of them are polished? Because you find red flags in the most pro ready guy?". And I'm asking you if any of them are capable of starting for the Browns opening day, not making a statement myself that any of them aren't. You don't think there is one in this draft that can do that? 

You say there are a ton of reason why a team wouldn't draft someone that is more pro ready guy over the raw-guy. Ok then. Alex Smith was more pro-ready than Aaron Rodgers you say...who was taken before Aaron was drafted...okay...so was that supposed to support your statement of a team having reasons not to draft a more pro ready guy? I don't get what you brought that example up. 

Edited by PapaShogun

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Pretty steep price to pay for Tyrod Taylor.  But ultimately, whether it's "worth it" or not will be borne out in whether it allows them to actually sit whatever rookie they obviously want to redshirt for a year, and if that allows the kid to ultimately become a true franchise QB for them long-term.

Trying to sign a guy like AJ McCarron as a stopgap for the year is all well and good, unless you get a handful of weeks in and the pressure leads to stupid decisions trying to avoid a second straight winless season, and throwing the shiny new prospect in there too soon.  Cleveland clearly aren't in the market to completely throw away another season.  Tyrod, with a strong team around him can be enough to win some games...maybe even make the playoffs like the Bills last year.  Which would be great insulation for your developmental "franchise QB".  As opposed to the hilarious revolving door/throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks approach that they've been going with in Cleveland forever.

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6 hours ago, OleXmad said:

Buffalo fans got to the playoffs for the first since 1999 and are trading away the QB that did that, say what you want about how they got there and how bad Tyrod played he still did something no other QB has in almost 20 years. 

I totally get why they're trading him, they don't see him as their QBOTF so why not trade him? But they're going to regret it. 

The Bills got to playoffs DESPITE Tyrod, not BECAUSE of Tyrod

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28 minutes ago, BigMountainGoat said:

The Bills got to playoffs DESPITE Tyrod, not BECAUSE of Tyrod

The bills lucked into the playoffs for sure, but Tyrod was still a big part of why they got there. 

Now the bills have a massive hole at QB they're going to have to fill instead of doing the smart thing and holding onto Tyrod as a decent bridge QB on the cheaper side (Though the pick they got for him was solid now they're forced into signing a veteran QB) 

Trading away a QB who got you to the playoffs is usually a bad idea, I get why they did it but it's still a bad idea and now the bills are going to trade the farm to go up and get a QB.

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He will certainly have a strong supporting cast in Cleveland.

Gordon, Coleman, Njoku and now Landry it seems.

If they get Barkley as well that's a great group.

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1 hour ago, BigMountainGoat said:

The Bills got to playoffs DESPITE Tyrod, not BECAUSE of Tyrod

Was that backup who threw 5 picks in one half gonna get you guys there?

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3 hours ago, OleXmad said:

The bills lucked into the playoffs for sure, but Tyrod was still a big part of why they got there. 

Now the bills have a massive hole at QB they're going to have to fill instead of doing the smart thing and holding onto Tyrod as a decent bridge QB on the cheaper side (Though the pick they got for him was solid now they're forced into signing a veteran QB) 

Trading away a QB who got you to the playoffs is usually a bad idea, I get why they did it but it's still a bad idea and now the bills are going to trade the farm to go up and get a QB.

Cheaper side? He wasn't cheap. He was scheduled to get a bonus hear shortly. Would have been a 10 million dollar backup as we were set draft a new QB anyway... Could easily sign Keenum or McCarron for similar or less money and use that extra draft pick to help us trade up for a QB.

Tyrod just not that good. He will protect the football and get some yards with his legs but that's about it... He regressed so much. At least his first year here he had an awesome deep ball. Not he can't hit the broadside of a barn past 15 yards. We need to take the next step... Tyrod is holding us back. There was a couple games we should have won but didn't due to Tyrods inability to move the football. Cincy and Panther games he had plenty of opportunities set up by our defense and didn't do anything with it.

 

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Bottom line are you winning a playoff game let alone a championship with Tyrod Taylor? If you don’t think so move on while you can and find someone who will get you there. Nothing against Tyrod as a professional, or as a person, he’s great in both of those aspects. But I’m ready for a franchise Quarterback. I’m 24 years old and have never seen one in Buffalo. It’s time.

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