The OUTLAW Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 10 hours ago, paul-mac said: 22 is the Bills right? Bills trade 21 & 22 for 4 overall, Browns have 21 and 22. You have to take Lamar at 21 purely for superstitious reasons. 21 and 22 aren't enough to move up to 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 11 hours ago, BigMountainGoat said: Tyrod is a bad choice for a bridge QB. Because if you draft Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield or Allen, then Tyrod makes little sense. Those guys need a complete different offense to him. You either create an offense to suit the rookie, in which case Tyrod will be terrible. Or you create an offense to suit Tyrod in which case the rookie completely suffers. A bridge QB has to bridge. And that includes the design of the offense. Tyrod is a niche style QB, he is only a bridge on certain specific styles I think Mayfield and Tyrod have a similar style. Tyrod isnt a major runner. Heck him and Kizer had similar rushing stats and Kizer didnt really run all that much. Tyrod is just good at making plays with his feet. Mayfield is the same way IMO. I think they can be used very similarly but that Mayfield is going to be a lot more dangerous throwing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OUTLAW Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 12 hours ago, Rod Johnson said: The 65th pick is technically a 3rd rounder. We have a flurry of young talent drafted around that spot already on our team (we have drafted at 65 the last 2 drafts netting Larry Obgunjobi and Carl Nassib). It can net a great player if you're lucky but is more likely a backup for the next season. That was our 6th highest selection we have this year. I get that it's an overpay but we have played the value game the last 2 seasons, reaped whatever benefits that affords, and can afford to overpay. We still have the arguably the most assets in the league. It's not technically a 3rd rounder, it is a 3rd rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yibbyl Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 So, after a few self-Hi 5's for getting the 3.1 pick in this deal, I think I'm finally getting the "Why?" from the Browns point of view. Initially, I thought, "Why give up a draft pick for a one and done stop-gap QB?" On the surface, it seems stupid. Then add in the timing of picking Tyrod up while they still have to pay the extra $6 million...again it looks stupid. However, in hindsight, I think it actually does make sense now. I knew from the start that the Browns saw Taylor as a stop-gap, so that possibility of "stealing a playoff caliber QB from my Bills for a measly 3rd rounder" was off the table. Here's what they got: a QB that manages most of the game well, for the most part is very careful with the ball (to a fault since he won't target anyone who hasn't already gotten open), and can make opposing DC's plan for him to run with the ball. The key part though is that he's a stop-gap on the last year of his contract. His job is to set a good example for whichever rookie QB they bring in (and they will). You will not re-write the playbook just so Taylor can perform well. That playbook will be largely what the rookie will be expected to run. Performance isn't necessarily what you are looking for here. The rookie needs to see what it looks like to work hard physically and mentally, put the team first, be a class act, and never give up. The Browns will get that modeling with Tyrod, who is no doubt going to try to prove that he deserves to start somewhere in this league. He's wrong, but if you listen to his interviews, it is obvious he has no idea that his peak is that of the 2nd best backup QB in the league (Foles is #1 simply because he has a ring he actually earned). Tyrod is also better than what the Browns have had recently at the position and that may likely lead to a handful of wins. That team and fanbase both need this to happen. It won't allow them to draft as early next year, but it is important that the players who will remain on the team start to see some sort of success. It's the payoff for hard work. Not having that measurable improvement will continue to demoralize that team. Ownership needs the fans to see this as well to start creating some more "buzz", likely generating higher revenues. Was 3.1 plus the $16 million contract too steep of a price? Well, first off, the Browns have the cash/cap space. Money isn't the issue this year. Focusing on pick #3.1 is the only real argument to consider. Even though the Browns have a high number of early draft picks, you could argue that that pick was wasted because Taylor is only available for 1 year, whereas the rookie selected with that pick likely would be available for 3 years and maybe might even have become a quality starter. Maybe. Still, I think it is fair to say that that pick for a starting QB is good value. Even for only one year...at least in this situation. Again, CLE needs Taylor to show a rookie how to work hard, compete, and handle himself with dignity. Taylor will do that. Other FA QB's will be less likely to do that and especially for just a 1 year contract. I like McCown as a 1-year stop gap given that he was ready to retire last year, but he'll likely not display the same intense work ethic you will see from Taylor. The others will either want/deserve multi-year deals (Keenum/Cousins), have a high risk of not being able to play ideally a full, but even a half, of a season (Bradford), or realistically want a multi-year deal (Bridgewater/McCarron/Glennon). Other teams were offering up some pick/combination of picks and Cleveland did what it had to do to guarantee they got Tyrod. In the end, Taylor does make a lot of sense as a mentor for the Browns. They did what they had to do to get him at a guaranteed 1-year contract in a year when he was going to be doing everything it takes to convince other front offices that he is a NFL starter. Add the fact that my Bills got at least a full round better pick than I expected in return and the deal is a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nzd07 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 29 minutes ago, buno67 said: how is it a fail? Browns dont need him for the '19 season, whoever they draft #1 overall will be the starter by then. They traded a 3rd rd pick and they will prolly get a 3rd rd comp pick because they lost Tyrod in Free Agency. Browns need a QB that could lead the team. Needed a QB who wont turn the ball over unlike Kizer and can make plays with his arm unlike Kessler. He will also help create change the culture in the locker room. Have always heard nothing but good things about him as a teammate. He is also good enough to start an entire season, allowing the rookie QB to not be pressured in to playing his first year Depends on how good you think Tyrod is. I think he's a below average QB. If he has a bad year he's not going to garner very much interest in FA at 30. You might not get a third rounder. At that point you should've just signed a vet and not given up a high pick. If he does better than expected, then yes you'll probably get a pick back. But for what? I mean, I don't see Cleveland going to the playoffs with Tyrod as their QB. I don't think any reasonable Browns fan would either. I also get the fanbase argument, but you're the Browns. If you guys ever put a good product on the field the fanbase will go crazy and I think you know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tab Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 my thoughts are this: everyone is saying Tyrod is bad... but i kinda think it's just the Bills staff that's bad. I've seen some people say "They Benched him for Peterman!" as if that's not a huge knock on the coaching staff to begin with I dont expect Tyrod to be exemplary with the Browns or anything but i'm not gonna lie, when I first heard about the trade, I immediately felt like this was an improvement for him (sorry Bills fans... I hope you find a guy you like) Browns obviously have money, and i think they need to upgrade when and wherever they can. The Jets managed to put together a watchable year with McCown, and watching Kizer last year made me feel really bad for Browns QBs so please over pay, do whatever you need to to get the QB position sorted out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbuff23835 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 49 minutes ago, tab said: my thoughts are this: everyone is saying Tyrod is bad... but i kinda think it's just the Bills staff that's bad. I've seen some people say "They Benched him for Peterman!" as if that's not a huge knock on the coaching staff to begin with I dont expect Tyrod to be exemplary with the Browns or anything but i'm not gonna lie, when I first heard about the trade, I immediately felt like this was an improvement for him (sorry Bills fans... I hope you find a guy you like) Browns obviously have money, and i think they need to upgrade when and wherever they can. The Jets managed to put together a watchable year with McCown, and watching Kizer last year made me feel really bad for Browns QBs so please over pay, do whatever you need to to get the QB position sorted out I’m still 1000% ok with the move they made at QB. It didn’t work out, but I respected them seeing that Tyrod wasn’t the answer, and at least trying to see what they had. We saw, it was horrendous and we went back and still made the playoffs lol. It was such a horrendous stretch by our defense the previous two games, and Tyrod had thrown for under 100 yards i think twice before that point including the week before, which should never happen in the NFL. Oh well. Wish Tyrod the best. I really do. I hope he takes the Browns to the playoffs and proves me wrong. Honest to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 4 hours ago, MWil23 said: The Bills would need more than that even on the Jimmy Johnson value chart to get the 4th pick. I can't see Buffalo trading 3 1st/2nd round picks and potentially more to move up that far. Yeah, It'd have to be more than just 21 and 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 If you go by the "new" chart, 21/22 is a slight overpay for #4. Not sure how many teams use that though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Kizer had a 26 QBR. TT bout to look like Montana out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Forge said: If you go by the "new" chart, 21/22 is a slight overpay for #4. Not sure how many teams use that though Yeah the new chart makes more sense but most trades seem to follow the old chart still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 3 hours ago, tab said: my thoughts are this: everyone is saying Tyrod is bad... but i kinda think it's just the Bills staff that's bad. I've seen some people say "They Benched him for Peterman!" as if that's not a huge knock on the coaching staff to begin with I dont expect Tyrod to be exemplary with the Browns or anything but i'm not gonna lie, when I first heard about the trade, I immediately felt like this was an improvement for him (sorry Bills fans... I hope you find a guy you like) Browns obviously have money, and i think they need to upgrade when and wherever they can. The Jets managed to put together a watchable year with McCown, and watching Kizer last year made me feel really bad for Browns QBs so please over pay, do whatever you need to to get the QB position sorted out People who are saying that Tyrod is bad are crazy. His per 16 game average over the past 3 years is: 281/449 62.6% 3221 passing yards 7.2 YPA 19 passing TDs 6 Ints 92.5 Passer Rating 103 rushes 573 rushing yards 5.6 YPC 5 rushing TDs I get that the guy isn't Tom Brady. I get that the guy misses easy passes at times. I get that the guy takes unnecessary sacks. I get that the guy won't elevate an offense. But he's not going to kill the team either. He's a game manager, and he does that pretty well. You can do a lot worse. He's a great option for a bridge QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMountainGoat Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 6 hours ago, tab said: my thoughts are this: everyone is saying Tyrod is bad... but i kinda think it's just the Bills staff that's bad. Bills fans who have had to suffer Tyrod not seeing wide open receivers, not use the middle of the field and refuse to throw to anyone but those who are completely open know it's Tyrod who is bad. The thing is, a lot of fans don't really see his play, they see highlight clips and his fantasy score where his running yards and low interception rate because he is so reluctant to throw the ball hide the real play. Tyrod is an offense killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Forge said: If you go by the "new" chart, 21/22 is a slight overpay for #4. Not sure how many teams use that though The “chart” is just a guide. It’s really all about supply and demand. The Rams were able to extract a premium from the Redskins in the RG3 deal because a bunch of different teams wanted to move up for him, whereas sometimes a team might really want to trade down and only have one partner so might be forced to give some discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OUTLAW Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 11 hours ago, Forge said: If you go by the "new" chart, 21/22 is a slight overpay for #4. Not sure how many teams use that though I haven't seen that chart at all, every chart I've seen says that it's short on value. But it really doesn't matter. It just feels short on value for the Browns. https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/games/draft-pick-value.php http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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