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Damarious Randall traded to the Browns for DeShone Kizer


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4 minutes ago, Packer_ESP said:

He was "6 games below 60 passer rating" shaky. Even if you want to discount the last two games (and I don't think we should) he laid some absolute stinkers at NO, vs BAL and vs TB when things still mattered.

Yeah. I might just be foolishly optimistic, but I think he can improve his passing. That being said, I completely understand the pessimism. Three years was a long time to learn and warm up, and he didn't exactly show you a lot to be proud of.

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9 minutes ago, Packer_ESP said:

He was "6 games below 60 passer rating" shaky. Even if you want to discount the last two games (and I don't think we should) he laid some absolute stinkers at NO, vs BAL and vs TB when things still mattered.

Kizer posted 8 games below 60 passer rating.  On the season Kizer finished at 60.5 passer rating.  Produced 4 games over 80 passer rating, never breaking 100.

Both Hundley and Kizer were bad at QB in 2017.

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41 minutes ago, pgwingman said:

But how shaky was he? Two of his worst games were after they'd been eliminated from playoff contention.

Asked another way, do you think Hundley has the tools (and mental makeup) to grow into the backup role? If he makes a few more plays last season, he's a 4-5 backup. I think that says you have some to work with.

I would agree that his dreams of becoming a franchise QB have probably set sail (boy, I remember people thinking he'd be worth two first round picks), but he doesn't look like the worst QB in the league.

I'm also having trouble understanding what Kizer gives you that Hundley doesn't. Kizer is younger, but has not shown much at all in terms of decision making.

 

I'm not gonna get all hung up over this. From what I saw and evaluated - he can move on.

He comes in this season and lights it up and the organization thinks the lights gone on and suddenly he's back to being that talented superstar in the making - fine with me - I dont think that'll happen but wont lose any sleep cause I was "wrong" or some such nonsense. Couldnt care less. Hundley was playing for his professional football life last year - including the end of season games. He'd stunk it up enough to cause SERIOUS questions about his future - from many segment that count (and social media's not one of them). So he had alot riding on outcomes and performance - and still he failed.

Here's *my* deal on Kizer. Said it already but let me put into this context. I didnt follow him in college. Pre-Draft I read that of the supposed "top" QBs he was one of the least "NFL ready". Didnt research him or other QBs in that draft class as we werent in the market and I've better things to do. He went to CLE and struggled. 1,2,3. Thats Kizer for me. Closed book.

NOW - somebody at 1265 thinks there's something there. Fine. I've not penciled him as anything other than he'll be at training camp and since he's now topical (if you would) my researches and posting here have included tweets and comments by people with greater football insight than I. Nothing conclusive on anybody's part - but part of the Kizer education thats now necessary. Had he stayed in CLE - I couldnt have cared less. 

I've seen Hundley - and found him wanting. Period. I dont need to break down his game into statistical minutiae  - not interested. Based on Regular Season Brett - he can move on.

I've not seen Kizer - so he's "in progress" (if you would).

And lastly - (repeating) - I'm not gonna get lost in the weeds or all hung up over DR valuations versus Kizer estimations because (like Hundley) - I've seen DR and and not Kizer - and although I think DR a talented player - I watched him get his a^^ burned more than enough times for me to think he can be replaced - and have to chuckle at all the "OH NO! We've lost DR" chatter - when during his tenure here his scorchings (and deficiencies) were common fodder on social media. Now, suddenly he's irreplaceable. Fine. Such is life in the WWW.

NEITHER player is a finished product. None of them. Final results arent in or available on any of them. I dont have any problem with the trade and will ALWAYS look for the best outcomes on any Packer player - which still includes Hundley (at this point) - but I have serious reservations about him.

Nuf sed?

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7 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Kizer posted 8 games below 60 passer rating.  On the season Kizer finished at 60.5 passer rating.  Produced 4 games over 80 passer rating, never breaking 100.

Both Hundley and Kizer were bad at QB in 2017.

Which is probably why GB got him for such a discount. Jimmy Gs and the like don’t  come in “player for player” trades with your Randall’s of the NFL world.

GB probably knew they couldn’t get really anything for Randall... heck look what Miami got for Landry. So I’m sure it’s a calculated risk.

Only one year in the league on a prospect they liked. They are hoping last year didn’t screw him up and that they can coach any of the bad things out of him. Plus with Philbin on board I feel alittle better about the structure that young QB will have.

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4 minutes ago, Leader said:

I'm not gonna get all hung up over this. From what I saw and evaluated - he can move on.

He comes in this season and lights it up and the organization thinks the lights gone on and suddenly he's back to being that talented superstar in the making - fine with me - I dont think that'll happen but wont lose any sleep cause I was "wrong" or some such nonsense. Couldnt care less. Hundley was playing for his professional football life last year - including the end of season games. He'd stunk it up enough to cause SERIOUS questions about his future - from many segment that count (and social media's not one of them). So he had alot riding on outcomes and performance - and still he failed.

Here's *my* deal on Kizer. Said it already but let me put into this context. I didnt follow him in college. Pre-Draft I read that of the supposed "top" QBs he was one of the least "NFL ready". Didnt research him or other QBs in that draft class as we werent in the market and I've better things to do. He went to CLE and struggled. 1,2,3. Thats Kizer for me. Closed book.

NOW - somebody at 1265 thinks there's something there. Fine. I've not penciled him as anything other than he'll be at training camp and since he's now topical (if you would) my researches and posting here have included tweets and comments by people with greater football insight than I. Nothing conclusive on anybody's part - but part of the Kizer education thats now necessary. Had he stayed in CLE - I couldnt have cared less. 

I've seen Hundley - and found him wanting. Period. I dont need to break down his game into statistical minutiae  - not interested. Based on Regular Season Brett - he can move on.

I've not seen Kizer - so he's "in progress" (if you would).

And lastly - (repeating) - I'm not gonna get lost in the weeds or all hung up over DR valuations versus Kizer estimations because (like Hundley) - I've seen DR and and not Kizer - and although I think DR a talented player - I watched him get his a^^ burned more than enough times for me to think he can be replaced - and have to chuckle at all the "OH NO! We've lost DR" chatter - when during his tenure here his scorchings (and deficiencies) were common fodder on social media. Now, suddenly he's irreplaceable. Fine. Such is life in the WWW.

NEITHER player is a finished product. None of them. Final results arent in or available on any of them. I dont have any problem with the trade and will ALWAYS look for the best outcomes on any Packer player - which still includes Hundley (at this point) - but I have serious reservations about him.

Nuf sed?

Nuf sed. That's completely reasonable. I don't get all the Packers games, so I missed most of his bad performances. I think he could still improve, but I completely understand why the FO would want a player with more upside.

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19 minutes ago, Packer_ESP said:

He was "6 games below 60 passer rating" shaky. Even if you want to discount the last two games (and I don't think we should) he laid some absolute stinkers at NO, vs BAL and vs TB when things still mattered.

Agreed that those last two games should count, that was his chance to prove something.

 

Here's some new stuff from McGinn to add on to Kizer's character. Packerraymond, he's got what you mentioned about building a brand. 

 

"What scouts said about Kizer before the 2017 NFL Draft"

 

NFC scout: “It’s between the ears more than anything. He’s got really good arm strength. He can crank the ball through the tight windows. He’ll force into coverage. He’ll stand tall in the pocket. When he’s under pressure he doesn’t move in the pocket as well as you’d like. He’s a big dude.”

AFC scout: “He has the most talent but his makeup stinks.”

AFC scout: “I wouldn’t want him. He’s very physically talented. He’s not as good as he should be because he’s not committed to the game. He’s committed to building a brand. He wants all the things that come with being a starting quarterback but he doesn’t want to put in the work. He’s sketchy.”

AFC scout: “He should be the top guy but for some reason he’s not. The tape is just incongruent. He’s smart. I talked to the kid. He’s got size, a good arm, he’s a pretty good athlete. Everything lines up. He’s got Notre Dame, for God’s sakes. It doesn’t connect. Is there a fatal flaw somewhere? Maybe the game doesn’t slow down for him. If he gets in the right situation I can see him being a good starter.”

AFC scout: “He’s Jay Cutler with less arm. Doesn’t win. He’s got all the measurables and pro qualities but he has bad moments.”

AFC scout: “He’s a pure Millennial.  He’s caught up in being more of a quarterback image than being a quarterback. He is the classic boom or bust. If he goes to the right spot with the right coach, he’ll ascend. They’re going to have to get him to focus on football. I honestly think this guy would do better in a small market. The quarterback coach and coordinator could cultivate him. Then I think he’ll take off. If he goes to a big market he’ll enjoy everything else that comes with the position as opposed to focusing on the position … In terms of arm strength, athleticism, talent, intelligence, he’s the highest end guy. At the same time, he’s also the one with the most flaws. The one position in the building you don’t want to worry about whether he’s going to be focused on football is quarterback. It cuts with a double-edged sword with this guy.”

 

AFC scout: “He’s a boom or bust guy. He is a first-round talent. He’s extremely talented. It’s all the other things. Boy, at times he looks bad. They won four games. You look at that team. They’ve got players. There’s no way they should win four games. It was because of this guy, the quarterback. He was so bad in the first half against Stanford they benched him … He’s athletic. He has a strong arm. He’s got a nice release. He throws a nice deep ball. He can move in the pocket. He’s not a runner. You question his patience and judgment. He’s streaky and inconsistent. He’s the most physically gifted of all the quarterbacks. Second round. He should have gone back (to school).”

NFC scout: “Prima donna. Thin-skinned. Only things he’s worried about are his status and money. That’s what drives him. It’s all about him. He’s bright, but it’s all about him.”

NFC scout: “He looks the part and all that but his quarterback makeup is concerning. Kizer’s a mess. The guy got benched. He had a lot of bad games. Doesn’t win. He’s a mess.”

 

 

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16 minutes ago, pgwingman said:

Nuf sed. That's completely reasonable. I don't get all the Packers games, so I missed most of his bad performances. I think he could still improve, but I completely understand why the FO would want a player with more upside.

Let me add and close it out about DR.

I think he stinks in press or man to man coverage. He's lousy at it IMO. An accurate QB is able to slice and dice him up all day - plus I THINK our new DC is gonna want to play more press man to man. Thats pure conjecture on my part however.

What I think he is good at - is he has a nose for the football and can close on it. He has a knack...or innate talent for that. Thats not coaching. Thats mostly instinct paired up with natural talents of speed and aggressiveness.

NOW - if CLE moves him from CB to FS (I dont think him nearly big enough to play SS) and he's able to wander around out in centerfield and use those strengths to his (and the teams) best advantage - well then I'll think the GBPs screwed up by not recognizing and trying that. Problem being on the GBPs - HHCD is our FS now - and at least until 2019. So you cant move DR now..so what do you do (?) and there's the attitude issue. That cant be discounted. When you quit on the team and your teammates dont feel you're there for them........thats a tough nugget.

I'll be interested to see what CLE does with him.

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5 minutes ago, Leader said:

Let me add and close it out about DR.

I think he stinks in press or man to man coverage. He's lousy at it IMO. An accurate QB is able to slice and dice him up all day - plus I THINK our new DC is gonna want to play more press man to man. Thats pure conjecture on my part however.

What I think he is good at - is he has a nose for the football and can close on it. He has a knack...or innate talent for that. Thats not coaching. Thats mostly instinct paired up with natural talents of speed and aggressiveness.

NOW - if CLE moves him from CB to FS (I dont think him nearly big enough to play SS) and he's able to wander around out in centerfield and use those strengths to his (and the teams) best advantage - well then I'll think the GBPs screwed up by not recognizing and trying that. Problem being on the GBPs - HHCD is our FS now - and at least until 2019. So you cant move DR now..so what do you do (?) and there's the attitude issue. That cant be discounted. When you quit on the team and your teammates dont feel you're there for them........thats a tough nugget.

I'll be interested to see what CLE does with him.

Yeah, I can see that. If I recall correctly, Randall was a FS in college, and was considered a FS prospect, which is what made it confusing when we took him.

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12 minutes ago, Kepler said:

But which one can secure the all important, multi million dollar endorsement deal with hubba bubba? THAT'S WHO WE SHOULD STICK WITH

I feel stupid that I hardly ever noticed him chewing gum.

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