leeevans83d Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I could see us trading up for Allen. Wouldn’t piss me off unless he’s a bust. It looks like if we draft him, we’ll go and burn the city down just based on the reactions on here. The bottom line is if our FO has a high grade on him and they believe in him, then get him. They are the decision-makers, not us. I think we all may need to hold judgement on that until we see him on an NFL field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuy82 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Unless we trade up to #2, we won't be trading until after the Jets make there pick. We're not gonna blindly trade up to 4 or 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflbillsfan Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 34 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said: Unless we trade up to #2, we won't be trading until after the Jets make there pick. We're not gonna blindly trade up to 4 or 5 I think beane makes the trade to either 2 or 4 on draft night. I do not see them making a move before then unless giants are willing to move whether Barkley would be available or not. If Giants were smart they wouldnt make a deal until that night just so they dont hand the browns both their top qb and barkley with the 2 picks they have. I do find it interesting that the bills made the trade with browns dealing tyrod. Then after the trade happened both beane and mcdermott reached out to Hue Jackson to talk about Aj Mccarron before signing him. They formed a relationship so browns may be willing to move pick 4 if barkley is off the table. Either way I am trusting what beane will do hes got us this far in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuy82 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said: I think beane makes the trade to either 2 or 4 on draft night. I do not see them making a move before then unless giants are willing to move whether Barkley would be available or not. If Giants were smart they wouldnt make a deal until that night just so they dont hand the browns both their top qb and barkley with the 2 picks they have. I do find it interesting that the bills made the trade with browns dealing tyrod. Then after the trade happened both beane and mcdermott reached out to Hue Jackson to talk about Aj Mccarron before signing him. They formed a relationship so browns may be willing to move pick 4 if barkley is off the table. Either way I am trusting what beane will do hes got us this far in the process. Does value go down on draft day in terms of cost to move up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yibbyl Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Cardinals sniffing around... Bastids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflbillsfan Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 19 hours ago, BillsGuy82 said: Does value go down on draft day in terms of cost to move up Everyone is focused on value but its case by case from what we as fans can see. 2012 3 1st rd picks to move up 4 spots for washington. The following year a 2nd rd pick to move up from 12 to 3 for the miami dolphins, because no qbs were in that draft. If Giants want Barkley and only barkley if hes gone at 1 would they be more inclined to trade down I would think so. We also do not know if Giants want a qb would a future franchise qb outweigh what you can do now with what you have in Eli? From what it sounded like with Colts Beane tried lowballing them at this time and colts called their bluff landed 3 2nd round picks and still will likely land a blue chip player in nelson/chubb/barkley. Media saying Giants didnt want to deal the #2 pick to jets is it because they share the same stadium, is it a player they want, or is it because the offer of 3 2nd rd picks didnt wow them. Only thing I can see when it comes to value is if they value the player they can get at 2 over the return on a trade. Bills may and will likely over pay come draft night if giants guy is still on the board, if hes off the board they may show more interest of willing to move down and the bills wont have to overpay as much. At this point it seems to be similar to what the eagles gave up which was a 1st, 3, 4, a future 1st and 2nd rd pick. So many factors go in to making a trade it isnt a simple phone call of saying I will give you this for this. Its like buying a house but 10 times the gamble. This has the potential to be the biggest qb draft class since 2004 with Rivers, eli, and big ben. Are we going to do what we did last time and settle on a qb like losman or this years lamar/ rudolph? We saw that happen do we want to repeat history or do we give up more then we should but land the possibility of getting a big ben, eli or rivers type qb who all are going on their 15th season with the same team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yibbyl Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, soflbillsfan said: Everyone is focused on value but its case by case from what we as fans can see. 2012 3 1st rd picks to move up 4 spots for washington. The following year a 2nd rd pick to move up from 12 to 3 for the miami dolphins, because no qbs were in that draft. If Giants want Barkley and only barkley if hes gone at 1 would they be more inclined to trade down I would think so. We also do not know if Giants want a qb would a future franchise qb outweigh what you can do now with what you have in Eli? From what it sounded like with Colts Beane tried lowballing them at this time and colts called their bluff landed 3 2nd round picks and still will likely land a blue chip player in nelson/chubb/barkley. Media saying Giants didnt want to deal the #2 pick to jets is it because they share the same stadium, is it a player they want, or is it because the offer of 3 2nd rd picks didnt wow them. Only thing I can see when it comes to value is if they value the player they can get at 2 over the return on a trade. Bills may and will likely over pay come draft night if giants guy is still on the board, if hes off the board they may show more interest of willing to move down and the bills wont have to overpay as much. At this point it seems to be similar to what the eagles gave up which was a 1st, 3, 4, a future 1st and 2nd rd pick. So many factors go in to making a trade it isnt a simple phone call of saying I will give you this for this. Its like buying a house but 10 times the gamble. This has the potential to be the biggest qb draft class since 2004 with Rivers, eli, and big ben. Are we going to do what we did last time and settle on a qb like losman or this years lamar/ rudolph? We saw that happen do we want to repeat history or do we give up more then we should but land the possibility of getting a big ben, eli or rivers type qb who all are going on their 15th season with the same team? Nailed it. There is no true, consistent value to gauge/base this on. It's like the sports trading cards market. There are players whose rookie card was worth bank initially, then after 5-7 seasons in whatever sports league they were in, the value of the card drops significantly as the player turns out to be good, but just not great AND someone else is the hot player of the day. Teams value QB's higher than any other position - salaries prove this. It is the same when you're offering draft picks instead of cash. You want the pick that will allow you to get that QB you want (EVERYONE knows we want a QB)? Prove it and pony up! Teams know this and know they got us by the short and curly's in the current situation. I hate the Jets, but I totally respect the strong move they made to put themselves in a position to draft one of the quality QB's AND they did it at our expense. It stinks, but it was admittedly a brilliant, early move. It does concern me that they didn't trade up with the Giants, which really would have guaranteed them a QB they could confidently work with. Makes me believe even more that the Giants are absolutely going QB. At #1, Cleveland is not gonna let anyone get between them and their QB, so they're picking one with that 1st pick and likely know that trading that pick away would come with too much risk. Pick #4 can be had for the right price, however, as they need so many upgrades beyond just a RB. Anyway, this high cost does not mean that sacrificing our future early picks is a bad thing though. If we miss out on just one other stud player next year, but acquire our franchise guy for the next 10, we're fine! It frees up considerable cash/Cap we would have had to spend on a FA QB...assuming we could even land one. We've had opportunities since Kelly, and the closest to being successful in FA for that position was getting Bledsoe (by trade). History has already shown us just how costly it is to not have a stud QB in this era. It's the equivalent of not having a good RB back in the 60's-70's. Might as well pay the piper early and get ours or we'll just end up paying for it in another way, either to an expensive FA or else complete failure to find one at all for an extended time...aka the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joutmaniii Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Another indication that we are moving up is bringing Free Agents like Compton and Bodine in. They are both below average players imho. Why would we do that - because we will be using our draft picks to move up. We are going to be left with some poor options if we do that. I think they won’t be signed until they complete a trade to move up. i am beginning to hate the idea of moving up. We have too many needs to throw that many picks at that one. Sit back and take a flyer on Rudolph, Jackson or White. Fill your cupboard with players like Edmunds, Will Hernandez, Gallup or Miller at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Joutmaniii said: Another indication that we are moving up is bringing Free Agents like Compton and Bodine in. They are both below average players imho. Why would we do that - because we will be using our draft picks to move up. We are going to be left with some poor options if we do that. I think they won’t be signed until they complete a trade to move up. i am beginning to hate the idea of moving up. We have too many needs to throw that many picks at that one. Sit back and take a flyer on Rudolph, Jackson or White. Fill your cupboard with players like Edmunds, Will Hernandez, Gallup or Miller at WR. Could show that or it could just show that we are low on money and at the very least Compton and Bodine have starting experience for cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflbillsfan Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 35 minutes ago, marshawn lynch said: Could show that or it could just show that we are low on money and at the very least Compton and Bodine have starting experience for cheap... 5 hours ago, Joutmaniii said: Another indication that we are moving up is bringing Free Agents like Compton and Bodine in. They are both below average players imho. Why would we do that - because we will be using our draft picks to move up. We are going to be left with some poor options if we do that. I think they won’t be signed until they complete a trade to move up. i am beginning to hate the idea of moving up. We have too many needs to throw that many picks at that one. Sit back and take a flyer on Rudolph, Jackson or White. Fill your cupboard with players like Edmunds, Will Hernandez, Gallup or Miller at WR. Last year we signed Poyer and Hyde, honestly including myself in this thread who actually went holy S we got ourselves elite talent at the safety position? Do i expect Compton to be the next guy to do that probably not but he has shown promise. The bodine i think is more of a comfortable for mccarron thing and I still dont know if they will sign him. Groy will have competition with whomever they bring in but at the end of the day I believe he will be the starting Center and not just for this year either. Bills are strapped for cash and they can only fill so many holes keep in mind they have to sign 90 guys the bills lost 18 to free agency and only recouped a half a dozen players. Just because they are bringing in guys for visits and even signing them doesnt mean they will be starting week 1. Settling for guys like Rudolph Jackson or white scream history of repeating itself. Why take a flyer on a qb that is meh and has so much work to do before they can start just to get guys like Edmunds Hernandez or miller? All that does is kick the qb issue down the road another 3 years and start all over again but with those guys going on the end of their rookie contracts and having to resign a Guard or tackle while moving up to get your qb? Why not just say forget it we are going to the top to get 1 of the top 4 qbs and actually see what they can do? I am tired of watching the bills be the Losman's of the NFL by playing it safe and not making a big splash. If they are gonna do it they might as well do it now with 4 prospects that are in the draft that could be as good as the 2004 crop of QBs? If the bills do move up and they become a bust we atleast know Beane and McDermott tried to take a risk and not settle like the other 10+ HCs the bills have had since Levy left. Also want to point out that the Jets have been working on a deal since senior bowl to move up in the draft, i think sticking it to the bills was just a bonus at the end but the bills looking to move up had no impact on their strategy it just sped it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDotNova Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 15 hours ago, Yibbyl said: Nailed it. There is no true, consistent value to gauge/base this on. It's like the sports trading cards market. There are players whose rookie card was worth bank initially, then after 5-7 seasons in whatever sports league they were in, the value of the card drops significantly as the player turns out to be good, but just not great AND someone else is the hot player of the day. Teams value QB's higher than any other position - salaries prove this. It is the same when you're offering draft picks instead of cash. You want the pick that will allow you to get that QB you want (EVERYONE knows we want a QB)? Prove it and pony up! Teams know this and know they got us by the short and curly's in the current situation. I hate the Jets, but I totally respect the strong move they made to put themselves in a position to draft one of the quality QB's AND they did it at our expense. It stinks, but it was admittedly a brilliant, early move. It does concern me that they didn't trade up with the Giants, which really would have guaranteed them a QB they could confidently work with. Makes me believe even more that the Giants are absolutely going QB. At #1, Cleveland is not gonna let anyone get between them and their QB, so they're picking one with that 1st pick and likely know that trading that pick away would come with too much risk. Pick #4 can be had for the right price, however, as they need so many upgrades beyond just a RB. Anyway, this high cost does not mean that sacrificing our future early picks is a bad thing though. If we miss out on just one other stud player next year, but acquire our franchise guy for the next 10, we're fine! It frees up considerable cash/Cap we would have had to spend on a FA QB...assuming we could even land one. We've had opportunities since Kelly, and the closest to being successful in FA for that position was getting Bledsoe (by trade). History has already shown us just how costly it is to not have a stud QB in this era. It's the equivalent of not having a good RB back in the 60's-70's. Might as well pay the piper early and get ours or we'll just end up paying for it in another way, either to an expensive FA or else complete failure to find one at all for an extended time...aka the status quo. The Jets contacted Cleveland and the NYG but were turned down by both. Keep in mind that the Giants could have turned us down because we play in the same city. Even though Buffalo is also a NY team, I think they won't get skewered as much by the public for trading the pick to Buffalo. My gut tells me 1 is off limits. 2 is barely open but the Giants would have to get a truckload in return. At this time, both the Jets and Bills have shown their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Apparently he's trash like Bodine for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 On 3/17/2018 at 9:55 PM, BillsGuy82 said: Does value go down on draft day in terms of cost to move up If there is a bidding war, there is huge pressure on the teams wanting to trade up, because of the time limit and teams know it. It often calls for contending teams to add more assets to the offer , at least that is the theory!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 7 hours ago, soflbillsfan said: Last year we signed Poyer and Hyde, honestly including myself in this thread who actually went holy S we got ourselves elite talent at the safety position? Do i expect Compton to be the next guy to do that probably not but he has shown promise. The bodine i think is more of a comfortable for mccarron thing and I still dont know if they will sign him. Groy will have competition with whomever they bring in but at the end of the day I believe he will be the starting Center and not just for this year either. Bills are strapped for cash and they can only fill so many holes keep in mind they have to sign 90 guys the bills lost 18 to free agency and only recouped a half a dozen players. Just because they are bringing in guys for visits and even signing them doesnt mean they will be starting week 1. Settling for guys like Rudolph Jackson or white scream history of repeating itself. Why take a flyer on a qb that is meh and has so much work to do before they can start just to get guys like Edmunds Hernandez or miller? All that does is kick the qb issue down the road another 3 years and start all over again but with those guys going on the end of their rookie contracts and having to resign a Guard or tackle while moving up to get your qb? Why not just say forget it we are going to the top to get 1 of the top 4 qbs and actually see what they can do? I am tired of watching the bills be the Losman's of the NFL by playing it safe and not making a big splash. If they are gonna do it they might as well do it now with 4 prospects that are in the draft that could be as good as the 2004 crop of QBs? If the bills do move up and they become a bust we atleast know Beane and McDermott tried to take a risk and not settle like the other 10+ HCs the bills have had since Levy left. Also want to point out that the Jets have been working on a deal since senior bowl to move up in the draft, i think sticking it to the bills was just a bonus at the end but the bills looking to move up had no impact on their strategy it just sped it up. No doubt, the Jets wanted to beat the Bills to the punch, so the question still remains in the Giants and Cleveland's hand, with the #2 and #4 pick. Right now I would trade them, but that is just me, what the teams will do is a whole other question and right now, nobody has a clue, so we are just going to have to wait to see how it plays out!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joutmaniii Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Guys - we are going to fill our roster with garbage players like Newhouse, Bodine and Compton. Do we really want a roster full of below average players to get a franchise QB? I would much rather build the talent around the team and see What MCCarron can do. If we take a run at QB and miss it will set our club back years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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