vikingsrule Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 26 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Because after two years you should know whether or not Cousins is the guy you want long term. If he’s not, then you need to plan according, but if he is, then extending Cousins is one of the easier ways to create space. Not if he wants another bump in pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 6 hours ago, SemperFeist said: If there’s no extension for Cousins by the beginning of the league year, I would be shocked if they don’t draft a QB fairly early. I’ve been thinking about this more and more, and I actually agree. Unless Tua falls, I still don’t see one in the first but, if they do end up with another playoff win next year, I can’t see them being fired. There isn’t some star veteran FA that will hit the market in 2021 outside of Newton, and I don’t see him as a QB in the Vikings offense. If they want a shot, they have to go after someone after Kirk. No way they let him touch free agency with no plan, and I don’t see the Vikings with Zimmer and Spielman starting the 2021 season with a rookie QB starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Not if he wants another bump in pay. Then you don’t resign him and draft for the future. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 11 hours ago, gopherwrestler said: Then you don’t resign him and draft for the future. Agree. If he wants a bump in pay, you let him play out the last season of his deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, Cearbhall said: That seems fair. Offer him a four year extension at $100 million and if he takes it or comes back with a reasonable counter offer then the team can build around him. If he doesn't, plan for a future without him. $25M per year would be an absolutely insulting offer. Kirk was a top-5 QB this year, and easily top-10 over the last two years, and $25M APY would put him as the 13th highest paid QB. He will without question get more money, and it'll be $30M or more per year. That is just the market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Heimdallr said: That is just the market. Then he’s not worth it. Beating up on bottom tier teams, while mostly disappearing against good teams. In 32 games as the QB for the Vikings, Cousins has stepped up to beat 1 good team. While his stat line looks good, what Cousins has given this team from a quality of win standpoint is just not worth a contract extension at market price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: $25M per year would be an absolutely insulting offer. Kirk was a top-5 QB this year, and easily top-10 over the last two years, and $25M APY would put him as the 13th highest paid QB. He will without question get more money, and it'll be $30M or more per year. That is just the market. $25M probably would be a little low, but I think they easily could get it to around $30M (the current contract averages $28M) and just structure it so it could make it more cap-friendly than the current contract, which has a $31M cap hit for this coming year alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Quote The argument for paying Cousins another massive contract — likely in the range of $35-40 million per year guaranteed — starts with how difficult it would be to replace him. Finding another quarterback who can match Cousins’s production will not be easy. We don’t see many teams letting go of quarterbacks who are comparable on paper. Players like Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford and Philip Rivers have similar profiles and they have each stayed in one place for the entire careers. Of course that’s the high-end comparable. Cousins is only a few shades different from QBs like Derek Carr, Alex Smith and Andy Dalton. https://www.skornorth.com/vikings-2/2020/01/the-future-of-the-vikings-part-1-quarterbacks-2/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Then he’s not worth it. Beating up on bottom tier teams, while mostly disappearing against good teams. In 32 games as the QB for the Vikings, Cousins has stepped up to beat 1 good team. While his stat line looks good, what Cousins has given this team from a quality of win standpoint is just not worth a contract extension at market price. How do you feel about the coach, because you just described his teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: $25M per year would be an absolutely insulting offer. Could be. I was just using the numbers of the post to which I was replying. The exact number doesn't really matter as it relates to the message I was trying to convey. I hope that you didn't miss that while getting hung up on this detail. While I used the number from the message I was responding to, what is being said is that the team ought to determine how much they are willing to pay Cousins, make him an offer, and if he accepts that is great. If he does not, they ought to plan for a future without him. Whether their opening offer is $25M/year, $27M/year, or something else I am sure they know to make their opening offer somewhat lower than what they are willing to agree to. That is why I mentioned him coming back with a counter. Don't get hung up on the exact number. That is pretty irrelevant to that message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Cearbhall said: Don't get hung up on the exact number. That is pretty irrelevant to that message. Sure, but it is relevant if what you are offering him is less than his last contract. Why would he entertain an offer less than what he got 3 years prior when his play has only improved (not even accounting for general salary inflation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: Sure, but it is relevant if what you are offering him is less than his last contract. Why would he entertain an offer less than what he got 3 years prior when his play has only improved (not even accounting for general salary inflation). I have no idea why he would. He probably wouldn't. That is fine. I hope nothing in my message made you believe that I thought he would. I believe I was not clear enough with the message though. I'll try to add clarity... The team will find out whether they can come to terms with Cousins by deciding what they are willing to pay him and making him an offer. If Cousins will accept that offer they can build around him. If not, the team will know they need to move on. That is true no matter the value they are willing to pay Kirk Cousins. Whether the Vikings are only willing to pay Kirk Cousins league minimum, or willing to pay him 50% of their salary cap, they ought to find out whether there is enough common ground to forge ahead with Kirk Cousins. I hope that we can agree that the amount the Vikings would be willing to offer him is within that range. Where in that range it falls does not matter at all with regards to finding out whether there is that common ground. Obviously, the more the Vikings are willing to offer the greater the chances will be of common ground. Now aside from that point and to answer your question, personally, I do not think that Cousins is going to accept any offer that wouldn't blow my mind. I think he wants to get to free agency after the next round of TV contracts are wrapped up. I do not see that as a fault of his. If that is his choice, I applaud him for making it. On the other hand, if he is willing to extend his deal with the Vikings on terms that the Vikings are willing to offer that is also his choice and that is great for him too. Kirk Cousins has earned the ability to choose. For that to happen, there is going to need to be some good faith negotiations. I do not think that the Vikings should start looking forward to a future without Kirk Cousins until exploring whether they may have a future with Kirk Cousins but from the team's point of view they should find that out before the draft this year. If the Vikings are only willing to pay Kirk Cousins $40M per year but Kirk wants to hit free agency for a chance to rake in a $45M per year payday I would hope that nobody would fault the Vikings for building for a future without Kirk Cousins. If Kirk can earn that $45M per year somewhere else I would hope that nobody would fault Cousins for going and doing that. Please understand that these numbers are somewhat arbitrary and I haven't expressed how much I would be willing to offer Kirk Cousins if I was running the Vikings. That simply does not matter for the message that I am trying to convey. Feel free to substitute in to this paragraph any numbers that you are comfortable with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, PrplChilPill said: How do you feel about the coach, because you just described his teams. Well, Zimmer's teams have been better without Cousins. Cousins team's have not been better without Zimmer. Does that mean anything, I'm not sure. Edited January 16, 2020 by Worm Guts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Worm Guts said: Well, Zimmer's teams have been better without Cousins. Cousins team's have not been better without Zimmer. Does that mean anything, I'm not sure. Of course, that didn't answer the question....zimmer has beat bad teams, but not so much the best teams, which was the criticism of Cousins..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Just now, PrplChilPill said: Of course, that didn't answer the question....zimmer has beat bad teams, but not so much the best teams, which was the criticism of Cousins..... It doesn't, but it might point to who's more impactful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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