vikesfan89 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said: How many has keenum led? I have no idea, I'm just curious Also I don't really get that stat. It seems pretty meaningless without context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshpit23 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 2 hours ago, wcblack34 said: One game. Who do you take, Cousins or Keenum? Cousins. And it’s not even close for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 a Bronco fan's comments after last night's game: "Case Keenum deserves coal for Christmas. He should cancel the rest of his contract he's so bad. He better get Shurmer, Diggs, and Thielen great Christmas gifts." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 2 hours ago, wcblack34 said: I don't think it's plain at all. Cousins hasn't led a game winning drive all season long. Some guys win when the chips are down. Some just cash in. Cousins deserves some criticism, but the game winning drives stat isn't a strong argument against him. Cousins did lead a 4Q comeback this year, where he put up 200 yards passing and 3 TDs to tie the game at Lambeau -- probably the biggest late game comeback in recent Vikings history. He followed that up in OT by what could've been 2 game winning drives, but Carlson missed two FGs, including a 35 yarder, that would've won it. Most of the Vikings losses this year weren't even close heading into the 4th quarter. They trailed the Bills 27-0, the Rams 38-28, the Saints 27-13, the Bears 14-3, and the Patriots 24-10. The only game of those they had a chance to tie was the Rams, where Cousins fumbled in the last minute at midfield. Vikings have had a few similar fumbles on last minute drives with a chance to tie under Zimmer, including Bridgewater twice in 2015 (Broncos, Cards) and Thielen in 2017 (Lions). The only other game where Cousins could've been expected to come back was in Seattle, where they trailed 6-0 in the goal-to-go situation early in the 4th quarter, and 6-0 attempting the FG (blocked illegally by Wagner) a few minutes later, and 14-0 when Cousins fumbled, returned for a TD. So he's 1 for 3 in opportunities this year, which isn't great but not terrible either. Career wise, Cousins has 9 4th quarter comebacks and 12 game winning drives, in 72 starts. Keenum by comparison has 6 4QC and 10 GWD, in 53 starts. That's basically the same rate as Cousins on both of those numbers. Last year, Keenum was credited for game winning drives in these games: FG with 12 seconds left to beat the Bears 20-17. Drive started at the Bears 28 after an INT by Harrison Smith, covered 20 yards from there. Keenum went 1/1 for 10 yards, McKinnon had 4 carries, and the Bears took a defensive holding penalty on a 3rd down when they got a sack. TD with 14:15 remaining in the 4Q against the Rams, to go up 14-7 (final score 21-7). Drive started at the Vikings 29, consisted of 6 run plays including Murray gaining 25, and 5 short completions by Keenum (longest 8 yards), the biggest being a 3rd and 4 conversion to Rudolph in the red zone that set up Murray's TD. TD pass to Rudolph with 14:56 remaining in the 4Q against the Falcons, to go up 14-9 (also the final score). 89 yard drive with 6 completions and 9 runs including 4 carries in a row by Murray from the Falcons 24 to the 6, which set up the TD. This was a 4QC as well as a GWD. TD pass to Diggs to beat the Saints, the Minneapolis Miracle The only one of those games that could be considered clutch QB play was the Miracle, and I'm not sure that wasn't as much luck as moxie or skill on Keenum's part. Kicking a FG after a turnover inside the opposition's 30 in a tied game, and going ahead in a tied (Rams) and a close (Falcons) game with over 14 minutes left isn't exactly the QB carrying the team to victory -- in both cases, the defense had to make multiple stops to hold the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
since72 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Not to mention the Vikings got to play Hundley twice last year. And the Browns, the Bengals, a last place Bear team twice. If our D held Rams to 7 points this year, Carlson kicks the Lambeau field goal,.officials penalize Seahawks on the field goal, we might have 11 wins going into the final game and nobody would be complaining about Cousins. Lots of things went the Vikings way last year. Little has went right this year. There's enough scapegoats to go around. Sometimes it's just dumb luck. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 59 minutes ago, since72 said: Not to mention the Vikings got to play Hundley twice last year. And the Browns, the Bengals, a last place Bear team twice. If our D held Rams to 7 points this year, Carlson kicks the Lambeau field goal,.officials penalize Seahawks on the field goal, we might have 11 wins going into the final game and nobody would be complaining about Cousins. Lots of things went the Vikings way last year. Little has went right this year. There's enough scapegoats to go around. Sometimes it's just dumb luck. grrrrr on those field goals, grrrr... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SotanKing Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 4th Quarter comebacks is another stat which can be pretty misleading, especially if you look at small sample size. Cousins doesn't have any 4th Q comebacks this season (probably could have 1 if our kicker didn't mess up) but he also is the same guy who led the league in 4th quarter comebacks last season.If you are looking at 4th quarter comebacks, atleast look at larger sample size. No.of 4th Q comebacks in career: Rodgers - 14 in 164 games (8.5%) Cousins - 9 in 77 games (11.7%) Brees - 34 in 264 games ( 12.8%) Brady - 35 in 268 games (13%) Stafford - 26 in 140 games (18.6%) So, what does it say? Nothing much...it depends a lot on context 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 19 hours ago, upriser7 said: 4th Quarter comebacks is another stat which can be pretty misleading, especially if you look at small sample size. Cousins doesn't have any 4th Q comebacks this season (probably could have 1 if our kicker didn't mess up) but he also is the same guy who led the league in 4th quarter comebacks last season.If you are looking at 4th quarter comebacks, atleast look at larger sample size. No.of 4th Q comebacks in career: Rodgers - 14 in 164 games (8.5%) Cousins - 9 in 77 games (11.7%) Brees - 34 in 264 games ( 12.8%) Brady - 35 in 268 games (13%) Stafford - 26 in 140 games (18.6%) So, what does it say? Nothing much...it depends a lot on context If it's up for a vote...I cast my ballot for not getting in the position where the team has to come from behind!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 What is the opposite of “clutch?” Kirk Cousins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
since72 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 On 12/24/2018 at 8:58 AM, Virginia Viking said: The point I will continue to make is that Cousins has always...always had great stats. What has it led too? Mediocrity. Point taken. Mediocrity achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 3 hours ago, wcblack34 said: What is the opposite of “clutch?” Kirk Cousins Mike Zimmer. So, in reality, Zimmer and Cousins are a perfect match for one another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Viking Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Cousins outside of the fumbles and pick-sixes wasn't that bad (cough-cough). Plays rarely had time to develop. Improving the O-line will make a huge difference. the Bears came out of nowhere this year to take a division we thought was ours. How do we ignite a passion like that here? Cousins tried to be the firey guy but he isn't. Really weird season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 2:43 PM, upriser7 said: 4th Quarter comebacks is another stat which can be pretty misleading, especially if you look at small sample size. Cousins doesn't have any 4th Q comebacks this season (probably could have 1 if our kicker didn't mess up) but he also is the same guy who led the league in 4th quarter comebacks last season.If you are looking at 4th quarter comebacks, atleast look at larger sample size. No.of 4th Q comebacks in career: Rodgers - 14 in 164 games (8.5%) Cousins - 9 in 77 games (11.7%) Brees - 34 in 264 games ( 12.8%) Brady - 35 in 268 games (13%) Stafford - 26 in 140 games (18.6%) So, what does it say? Nothing much...it depends a lot on context Does this take into account if the QB led to a score then the defense gave it right back up to lose the game? Or also if the team happens to frequently be ahead in the 4th quarter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said: Does this take into account if the QB led to a score then the defense gave it right back up to lose the game? Or also if the team happens to frequently be ahead in the 4th quarter? That's why it depends on context Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said: That's why it depends on context Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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