The 2018 Kirk Cousins Megathread

[JDBrocks]

Again, please find where I have suggested any of what you just mentioned. That's the strawman. You are making up an argument that I never made in the first place. I think he was terrible against GB, I said as much in the GDT. I thought he was pretty good yesterday, and posted the same. I just said in my post above that Cousins is an average QB that needs a great team around him to win games. 

You are making up a narrative that doesn't exist. No one said that you can't think Cousins stinks. No one said that you couldn't post about it either. People are going to disagree with you though. That's the way it goes. You can't find a single instance of someone "shutting down" an anti Cousins argument unless it was off topic because it never happened. That is the essence of claiming victim-hood.

I don't oppose other viewpoints on Cousins and you won't find me doing it. Calling him a goose legged clown and ragging on his contract doesn't really support your argument that much. Complaining about forum members instead of the football being played on the field doesn't either. 

I don't disagree that it is frustrating to see the supposed "missing piece" play like a middle of the road player. I'm just not going to pile on about it in game day threads, regardless of outcome. I choose not to view his time here as a waste, and his contract size and length is irrelevant because there is football to be played. If Joe Flacco and Nick Foles can play inspired football and win championships, I think Cousins can ride a heater too. He just needs to get on one, and it's valid to believe that he never will.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Torchezim said:

 Knowing we are wasting time with this goose legged clown commanding the offense.

I agree with most of your concerns about Cousins, and have made my criticisms known since he was signed.  I also, at times, have felt my criticisms dismissed cavalierly by some.  However, using terminology like what you used above tends to invite reactivity rather than reasonable dialogue concerning an important issue.  That's my two cents...take it for what it's worth to you.

[Krauser]

43 minutes ago, Torchezim said:

Our team is good enough to win now but Kirk Cousins is not. It just so happens he plays the most important position on the field, and because of that, we get to watch long developed players that have fortunately been playing alongside one another for a respectable amount of time; cohesive and potentially dominant unit of a defense work themselves to the bones just for Cousins to not show up when it matters.  Always when it matters.

I've never been a big fan of Cousins but this just isn't true. 

The Vikings team last year wasn't good enough to win. The OL was a shambles, and the run game was useless. The offense in general was a mess in terms of scheme, play calling and execution. The defense was pretty good but they really struggled early in the year, especially in the Rams TNF game. They didn't rise to the occasion against better ball control offenses like the Saints and Pats. In week 17, with the playoffs on the line, they couldn't stop the Bears from running the ball down their throats. And the kicking game was the worst in the league. 

Cousins took a lot of heat for the failure of the 2018 team. The idea was that the 2017 team was legitimately a contender (true), and Cousins was an upgrade from Keenum (also true), so any drop-off in results was the QB's fault.

Cousins did play poorly in a couple of games that they could have won if he'd played better, especially the losses in Chicago and Seattle. He fumbled too much especially in the Bills game and didn't elevate the offense when JDF put the game in his hands after the bye week. But it still isn't true that the 2018 Vikings were a great team let down by their QB. You could put just about any QB on that team last year and the Vikings don't win the division, or a playoff game. 

This year's loss at GB was legitimately Cousins' fault, in a way that most of the losses last year just weren't. The OL wasn't great but he had a chance to make better decisions and better throws. The defense wasn't "potentially dominant" (giving up 3 TD drives in a row to start the game?) but they too were good enough to win in the end. 

But that Packers game was an outlier for Cousins -- he's usually nowhere near that bad. He wasn't that bad in week 1, and he wasn't that bad in week 3. Criticism for week 2 is well deserved for his terrible performance, but there's no reason to believe that's going to be the way he plays for the rest of the year, or in every big game. 

...

Ranking Cousins' 2018 games by PFF grades: 

Good Kirk (>75 overall, highest to lowest grades): @ GB, NO, MIA, @ LARM, DET, @ PHI 
Bad Kirk (< 60 overall, lowest to highest grades): BUF, @ SEA, ARI, @ CHI, CHI

3 of his best 6 and 3 of his worst 5 games were against playoff teams. 3 of his best 6 and 2 of his worst 5 were road games. 2 of his best 6 and 2 of his worst 5 were prime time games. There's no easy narrative there, except that the team wins more (3-2-1 in his best 6 vs 1-4 in his worst 5) when the QB plays well, which should be no surprise.

This year, Cousins has had one very good game (OAK, would've been his 3rd highest graded game last year) and one terrible one (@ GB, the lowest graded game of his career). The Packers game was completely awful, and it's depressing to think that they would've won if he'd played just OK. But Cousins is probably not going to continue to play at the level of the worst single game performance of his career for the rest of the season. 

Hopefully he can rise to the occasion and come up with a win in Soldier Field. The narrative will change if they get to 3-1.

[CriminalMind]

Its is bit of an understatement to say that its an important give for the Vikings and Cousins (week 4 game @ CHI)

Cousins was horrendous week 2 @GB ... and very likely the reason we lost.... and will surely be a factor in seeding, 3 months from now.

I think the team outside of QB .. may be better then 2017 ... because of the team balance now.

However, I think the defense may be in for a big drop next offseason, which is why its critical to take care of business this year.

If we get the W at Solider Field ... I would feel pretty comfortable with being able to get a playoff spot this year, even tho its early.

 

[since72]

Three of the last four games this season are at home against the three divisional rivals.  (The away game is at Los Angeles)  We won't be playing outdoors at Lambeau or Soldier Field in December for a playoff spot.  Those games will be out of the way in September. 

[vikingsrule]

27 minutes ago, CriminalMind said:

Its is bit of an understatement to say that its an important give for the Vikings and Cousins (week 4 game @ CHI)

Cousins was horrendous week 2 @GB ... and very likely the reason we lost.... and will surely be a factor in seeding, 3 months from now.

I think the team outside of QB .. may be better then 2017 ... because of the team balance now.

However, I think the defense may be in for a big drop next offseason, which is why its critical to take care of business this year.

If we get the W at Solider Field ... I would feel pretty comfortable with being able to get a playoff spot this year, even tho its early.

 

Agreed, schedule seems to lighten up a bit too, granted it’s hard to tell this early. Giants, Eagles, Redskins, all teams MN should feel good about beating. The one road game in that stretch is in NY and they probably won’t have Barkley. If MN can pull off the win in Chicago, things are looking real good to the half way point. I know they go to Detroit before the Redskin game, might be a challenge for sure. Detroit certainly deserves some respect this year.

Edited September 23, 2019 by vikingsrule

[Nozizaki]

I hate the narrative that Kirk is struggling in 2019. He had an abysmal game at GB and threw 10 passes against ATL, in a blow out win. He had a strong game against Oakland but only had 21 attempts. He isn't struggling in 2019, he struggled on the road against what looks like a strong GB defense.

I also think it's worth noting that as much flak as Kirk took last year, he had a career year playing behind a shaky at best offensive line. He put up the most passing TD's (30) he ever had for a season and the fewest INTs in any season he has started all 16 games (10). He posted his best completion percentage for the year (70.1%). PFF even talked about his incredible accuracy under pressure last year and how unsustainable it was. It was disappointing that he didn't lead any game winning drives in the 4th quarter or OT of any games (although @GB in 2018 really should count), but honestly he was due for a slight regression to the mean.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be blamed for losing us the game in GB this year, he did. Plain and simple. But he was one of the few reasons the Vikings didn't pick in the top 10 last year and and is the best chance the Vikings have to win big games this year. As @Krauser said, the game last week @GB would go down as the worst game of his career and isn't a perfomrance we should be expecting again.

[Torchezim]

21 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

Again, please find where I have suggested any of what you just mentioned. That's the strawman. You are making up an argument that I never made in the first place. I think he was terrible against GB, I said as much in the GDT. I thought he was pretty good yesterday, and posted the same. I just said in my post above that Cousins is an average QB that needs a great team around him to win games. 

You are making up a narrative that doesn't exist. No one said that you can't think Cousins stinks. No one said that you couldn't post about it either. People are going to disagree with you though. That's the way it goes. You can't find a single instance of someone "shutting down" an anti Cousins argument unless it was off topic because it never happened. That is the essence of claiming victim-hood.

I don't oppose other viewpoints on Cousins and you won't find me doing it. Calling him a goose legged clown and ragging on his contract doesn't really support your argument that much. Complaining about forum members instead of the football being played on the field doesn't either. 

I don't disagree that it is frustrating to see the supposed "missing piece" play like a middle of the road player. I'm just not going to pile on about it in game day threads, regardless of outcome. I choose not to view his time here as a waste, and his contract size and length is irrelevant because there is football to be played. If Joe Flacco and Nick Foles can play inspired football and win championships, I think Cousins can ride a heater too. He just needs to get on one, and it's valid to believe that he never will.

I can’t discuss repeated points.  Nothing is getting to you and, apparently, none of your statements are reaching me.  This is a revolving door that is never going to swing the other way for either of us.  

Let’s just agree to disagree. 

When a new topic sparks debate between us, I’ll do what I can to not have my mini sports tirades latent with obnoxious sarcasm.  Though that wasn’t intended, subtraction of it is easy.  This should be civilized:

When Cousins fails again like I know he inevitably will, maybe we can revisit this topic.  Until then, good luck next Sunday. 

[JDBrocks]

No, your claims are getting to me, and I fully understand what you are saying. They just aren’t true. And when asked to back them up you refuse.

I’ve answered several of your questions about his contract, his play, etc. If you want to drop it that’s fine. I just wanted to make it clear that you haven’t actually made an attempt to have a discussion about my opinion of Cousins.

[Torchezim]

22 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

No, your claims are getting to me, and I fully understand what you are saying. They just aren’t true. And when asked to back them up you refuse.

I’ve answered several of your questions about his contract, his play, etc. If you want to drop it that’s fine. I just wanted to make it clear that you haven’t actually made an attempt to have a discussion about my opinion of Cousins.

What do you mean I haven’t tried to have a discussion? 

You haven’t disproved anything.  And they aren’t wrong. They are opinions.  Of which you need to have more information before passing them out. 

You really didn’t negate my argument or make mine less than believable simply because you responded  to it.  

Cousins yearly play has been average to below average. He has a game or two where he makes pretty throws but clearly he hasn’t done anything with it. 

You said I was trying to “play victim”.  How am I playing victim on a football forum? How am I playing victim when all I am doing is stating facts regarding on field performances?  He isn’t that good and nothing you say will change my mind or most everyone else’s mind....   

How else am I going to back up my claims other than to say, “watch his games”?  You want me to pull out ranking that doesn’t mean squat or take into account everything that could affect a player’s performance?  I don’t think you really know what you’re saying if I’m being honest. 

Your opinion of Cousins is barely any different than mine, save for the ability to take us anywhere close to the big game. You don’t expect him to win us a trophy but you also expect him to be good enough for us to make a run in the playoffs..  that in itself is questionable and not worthy of a retort.  He hasn’t shown in his entire career that he was capable of doing that. You say some silly things a lot of the time. I don’t always feel the need or desire to continue.

My previous post was me getting tired of numerous performances on the field being flat out ignored by you.  Then requesting that I go search through the entire forum for comments that I know I have seen all over the place — People getting bothered that others dislike Cousins: “You know better than the front office?”, “You’re just armchair qbs that should let coaches coach”.   You know as well as I do that there are related and similar comments made all the time. 

None of us can say at this point (though there is enough evidence) that we are either definitively right or wrong. However, I’m going off what I have seen on the field for the last 8 years. You’re going off what you think is going to happen and unseen potential.

If anyone is wrong here, it is not me. 

Next time, please tag me.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Torchezim

[JDBrocks]

Taking this down and moving on.

Thanks @eaganfootball4

Edited September 25, 2019 by JDBrocks
finished with a public conversation

[eaganfootball4]

Can you please take this discussion to a private message or something. Those of us who just like to browse good football discussion don’t want to have to sift through these posts. Either get back to just discussing Cousins or let it go.

[sledgehammer]

Whatever you think of him, he's still one of the most attractive QBs in the league.  

[wcblack34]

43 minutes ago, sledgehammer said:

Whatever you think of him, he's still one of the most attractive QBs in the league.  

In a "Children of the Corn" kind of way... 

[JDBrocks]

The human cup of ranch dressing: