Cearbhall Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: I think each of those players were the best option available given the circumstances and available resources at the time. That's just what it costs to acquire those players. I don't think in either scenario the Vikings were really in a position to take a step back at the position, especially with Hill. Hindsight is certainly nice for us talking on the forums It wasn't just in hindsight that made the Bradford deal and the Kirk Cousins signing look questionable. Some of us were saying it at the time of the acquisitions. But I agree, it is more about what it cost to acquire those guys that was a problem. Either of them would have been fine options if the compensation package for either of them was in line with where they were as QBs. In hindsight, Cousins compensation is not as bad as I thought it was at the time but the fact that the team had to guarantee the whole things is problematic. One of the points I was making at the time was that I would rather pay something like Teddy $10M and Keenum $23M and be free to reassess options after a year than pay Cousins $30M and be bound to him for three years. Of course, I also thought the team's best option was offering Drew Brees $35M a year to persuade him to leave the Saints. Maybe Brees wouldn't have taken that offer, but I would have at least been extending the offer. If there really was no amount that would have caused Brees to leave New Orleans why would he wait until he can hear offers before deciding to sign his contract with the Saints? With respect to Bradford, I thought the team should get by with what they had or could get on the free agent market for the year. Whoever they got wouldn't have been as good as Bradford but then the Eagles also wouldn't have drafted a player with our pick that ended our hopes the next year via a strip sack of our QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: It wasn't just in hindsight that made the Bradford deal and the Kirk Cousins signing look questionable. Some of us were saying it at the time of the acquisitions. But I agree, it is more about what it cost to acquire those guys that was a problem. Either of them would have been fine options if the compensation package for either of them was in line with where they were as QBs. In hindsight, Cousins compensation is not as bad as I thought it was at the time but the fact that the team had to guarantee the whole things is problematic. One of the points I was making at the time was that I would rather pay something like Teddy $10M and Keenum $23M and be free to reassess options after a year than pay Cousins $30M and be bound to him for three years. Of course, I also thought the team's best option was offering Drew Brees $35M a year to persuade him to leave the Saints. Maybe Brees wouldn't have taken that offer, but I would have at least been extending the offer. If there really was no amount that would have caused Brees to leave New Orleans why would he wait until he can hear offers before deciding to sign his contract with the Saints? With respect to Bradford, I thought the team should get by with what they had or could get on the free agent market for the year. Whoever they got wouldn't have been as good as Bradford but then the Eagles also wouldn't have drafted a player with our pick that ended our hopes the next year via a strip sack of our QB. It was reported that the Vikings did indeed talk to Brees before turning to Cousins. Edited October 1, 2019 by swede700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: I think each of those players were the best option available given the circumstances and available resources at the time. That's just what it costs to acquire those players. I don't think in either scenario the Vikings were really in a position to take a step back at the position, especially with Hill. Hindsight is certainly nice for us talking on the forums I get that they were the best options available. But at some point in the evaluation process, Spielman has to consider the cost of doing business and the long term implications. That is my concern, it just seems there is too much urgency to throw away resources at the best option available when the best option available isn’t very good at the end of the day. That’s where Spielman has to be held accountable and if that thought process is the best approach to building a team. Outside of Drew Brees, FAs rarely work out at QB. They’re available for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, swede700 said: It was reported that the Vikings did indeed talk to Brees before turning to Cousins. Was it reported how much the Vikings were offering Brees? They clearly didn't show him enough fat stacks to get his attention. If he was asking for $40M per year the Vikings were right to move on to other options. I don't think it would have taken anything near that amount to get his attention but we'll never know because it was never reported what he wanted from other teams. It was never reported what other teams were offering him. We do know what he agreed to with the Saints. That leads me to believe that there is a price that would have gotten his attention that I would have been willing to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: Was it reported how much the Vikings were offering Brees? They clearly didn't show him enough fat stacks to get his attention. If he was asking for $40M per year the Vikings were right to move on to other options. I don't think it would have taken anything near that amount to get his attention but we'll never know because it was never reported what he wanted from other teams. It was never reported what other teams were offering him. We do know what he agreed to with the Saints. That leads me to believe that there is a price that would have gotten his attention that I would have been willing to pay. We have no idea what the discussion entailed, so it's difficult to speculate on what that amount would have been. Considering the rumors surrounding Prescott, I can't imagine it would have been out of the realm of possibility that Brees was asking for $35M+...just because he settled for $25M per doesn't mean that he would have taken anywhere near that from another team. Edited October 1, 2019 by swede700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, swede700 said: Blah, blah, blah Prove it, Kirk! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Blah, blah, blah Prove it, Kirk! That was my first thought as well. The continual apologies can only go so far. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, swede700 said: That was my first thought as well. The continual apologies can only go so far. Yep. That’s where we’re at now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 8 hours ago, CriminalMind said: I think signing Cousins was the right move (at that time given options). I think moving on from Cousins as soon as possible is now the right move (at this time given this team) Hardest part is the guaranteed contract, it’s literally not worth cutting him. It’s not worth Starting Sean Mannion. Teams good enough even our draft pick most likely won’t improve the team. Kirk will start this year, and I’m 99% certain Kirk will be the starter barring injury next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: Hardest part is the guaranteed contract, it’s literally not worth cutting him. It’s not worth Starting Sean Mannion. Teams good enough even our draft pick most likely won’t improve the team. Kirk will start this year, and I’m 99% certain Kirk will be the starter barring injury next year. Agreed, the team should rally around Kirk Cousins and do everything they can for the team to succeed with him this year. This is what I have told my wife as she has argued the last few weeks that the team needs to bench Cousins. On the other hand, I am not so resigned to a future with Kirk Cousins starting for the Vikings next year. Assuming the team builds Cousins up enough this year by doing everything they can for him to succeed I think there is a team out there that would take Cousins if the Vikings agreed to eat ~$10M of his contract. I don't think the Vikings would even have to give up a draft pick to get a team to take Cousins. The harder part is convincing Cousins to accept the trade. I think he would be happy to go somewhere he can start, somewhere he is wanted, if the Vikings privately make it known to him after the season that they do not want him and he will not be the starter even if he is on the team. If Cousins absolutely will not allow a trade, the Vikings can always cut him. Some team would sign him to be their starter. Low end starting QB salary nowadays is almost $20M. If the Vikings cut Cousins before the start of free agency he should be able to get somewhere around that. Standard offset language in contracts would then mean the Vikings only have to pay out the remainder of the guarantee, ~$10MM. For now, the team needs to do everything they can to help Cousins out. Benching him is not the right answer IMO. The more useful they can make Cousins appear the less painful it will be for them when they cut him after the season, which in my opinion they should. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: Hardest part is the guaranteed contract, it’s literally not worth cutting him. It’s not worth Starting Sean Mannion. Teams good enough even our draft pick most likely won’t improve the team. Kirk will start this year, and I’m 99% certain Kirk will be the starter barring injury next year. Isn’t Sean Mannion a free agent next year? If Cousins is cut, they probably bring in a different stop gap, maybe even a familiar face like Keenum or Teddy. For this year, you ride out the year with Cousins. No matter how ugly things get. Hopefully it gets better and hopefully the locker room isn’t lost. last thing you want to do is throw out a QB that no one wants to rally around or play for. My fear is this could be the case very soon if we don’t start beating good teams. There’s no reason for Kirk to miss as many throws as he does. Edited October 2, 2019 by vikingsrule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I still think the smartest thing for the Vikings to do is get aggressive in the draft and target “their guy” who they believe will be the QBOTF. Cousins will go into the offseason/training camp as the starter, but if he’s out played, contract or not, the team can not proceed with him as the starter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torchezim Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, vikingsrule said: Isn’t Sean Mannion a free agent next year? If Cousins is cut, they probably bring in a different stop gap, maybe even a familiar face like Keenum or Teddy. For this year, you ride out the year with Cousins. No matter how ugly things get. Hopefully it gets better and hopefully the locker room isn’t lost. last thing you want to do is throw out a QB that no one wants to rally around or play for. My fear is this could be the case very soon if we don’t start beating good teams. There’s no reason for Kirk to miss as many throws as he does. That’s what I’m worried about. This level of play from Cousins making players want to leave as soon as possible and go to a prominent winner and/or a team with a really good QB. Edited October 2, 2019 by Torchezim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 16 hours ago, swede700 said: It was reported that the Vikings did indeed talk to Brees before turning to Cousins. No one but the Saints were ever going to sign Brees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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