AlexGreen#20 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Leader said: If on the field talent is thought still there and its necessary to free up CAP space, renegotiate Clays numbers - done. I've always thought him a better weapon when moved around - as opposed to his constant mad dash to get under the LT's shoulder pads before he's pushed beyond the pocket. It's not rocket science. It's football. Because I don't really want to be paying a 33 year old Clay Matthews significant money in 2019, and I don't think the Packers have much leverage. If he wouldn't get all of his money when cut, he'd certainly get a good portion of it by another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, AlexGreen#20 said: Because I don't really want to be paying a 33 year old Clay Matthews significant money in 2019, and I don't think the Packers have much leverage. If he wouldn't get all of his money when cut, he'd certainly get a good portion of it by another team. Okay. Understood and thats fine. If you can construct an extension so as to avoid that (above) fine. So - do you want his talent THIS YEAR or not? Meaning - assessing our CAP situation - reaching a conclusion - then assessing what you think of Clays talents - reaching a conclusion - you've already assessed / reached a conclusion regards roster edge rushers..... So - conclusion - you want Clay this year of not? Note - you may have answered this already in a previous post - but I've not read it all - fast forwarding to the bottom of the page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I want Clay this year. Our cap situation is fluid assuming you plan on extending Rodgers' this year. Based on what you're willing to push off into later years, and based on what you think he would be willing to accept, you can make a decent amount of room. The problem at the moment isn't really the cap. The problem at the moment is the lack of passable replacements available. I think if you were to put every edge rusher in the league on a graph with performance on one axis and pay on the other axis, you find that Clay is a below average bargain. But the other options in Free Agency all look worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, pacman5252 said: It isn’t really worth it to cut Clay. He easily could get a 1 year deal somewhere in the ballpark of what he is making. Peppers got 5m. Trent Murphy got 3 years 22 (potentially 30). Clay is overpaid but not by as much as perceived. Maybe like 2m. Then there is the fact by cutting him we’d create another need (if we got Vin Curry for 11, I might be okay). No most mouth breathers beleive if you don’t have the top stats you should get paid the vet min. Beyond that most fans don’t or can’t see anything beyond stats. Few look at the actual play, market or even consider that our entire D has been overpaid the last few years. Anyone think coaching is/was an issue. Clay isn’t going anywhere and will likely see a decent extension his market would be very good if he was available. And with the right team he’s be very successful. I’d almost welcome him being release just to see him succeed elsewhere so the folks that don’t get it may learn and get it. But alas it’s the same every year. Cut one of our best cause that guy is better. The honey badger better than clay yeah right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I want Clay this year. Our cap situation is fluid assuming you plan on extending Rodgers' this year. Based on what you're willing to push off into later years, and based on what you think he would be willing to accept, you can make a decent amount of room. The problem at the moment isn't really the cap. The problem at the moment is the lack of passable replacements available. I think if you were to put every edge rusher in the league on a graph with performance on one axis and pay on the other axis, you find that Clay is a below average bargain. But the other options in Free Agency all look worse. "I want Clay this year" Agree - I want him this year as well. IF we can just ride his numbers out (which sounds likely) and deal with him after - fine - do it. "The problem at the moment is the lack of passable replacements available" Agree. I've been whispering if for some time: "Are we sure of our talent evaluations (?) and/or are we being aggressive enough to secure those we readily identify as guys that would make our engine run (?) - or - are we sitting back at the end of each draft round - possibly dropping back (out of prime talent ranges) to secure more draft picks - and getting more JAGs in return?" I'm not an overly harsh guy and dont play GBP GM in life or on social media - but I've been wondering about this for the last few of TTs years. If Gute is now going to be more aggressive - using the TRIAD of NFL weapons: Draft, FA & Trades - more than TT did - good - cause I see other teams doing it - and - I see players on other teams that SEEM just a cut above many of ours. Overall change isnt going to happen over night though. Edit Add On: I think theres a reason TT seemed to come to life "activity-wise" of recent. He'd/we'd let the pendulum simply swing and it was getting near to stopping in the middle. We've been an incredibly successful organization. What is it (?) two losing years in the last 25 or 26 (?) and RIGHT ON THE CUSP in so many NFCCGs it will take years off all our lives. Give me a break. Thats astounding. Other fans would pay us to live our existence. But - we're into Championships. So, what do we have to do to get there (?) to get over that cusp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Would everyone agree that the one aspect PFF can get close to accurate is pass rushers? Because Matthews just had his best year since 2014 according to them in a year where everybody here said he was "done," "too old," "crap." That was almost exclusively at pass rusher. If Pettine was serious about utilizing Clay's versatility, he's going to have a hell of a year for us. He was also our third highest graded defensive player last year according to that one assessment from that one guy. Just behind Daniels and Clark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Leader said: "I want Clay this year" Agree - I want him this year as well. IF we can just ride his numbers out (which sounds likely) and deal with him after - fine - do it. "The problem at the moment is the lack of passable replacements available" Agree. I've been whispering if for some time: "Are we sure of our talent evaluations (?) and/or are we being aggressive enough to secure those we readily identify as guys that would make our engine run (?) - or - are we sitting back at the end of each draft round - possibly dropping back (out of prime talent ranges) to secure more draft picks - and getting more JAGs in return?" I'm not an overly harsh guy and dont play GBP GM in life or on social media - but I've been wondering about this for the last few of TTs years. If Gute is now going to be more aggressive - using the TRIAD of NFL weapons: Draft, FA & Trades - more than TT did - good - cause I see other teams doing it - and - I see players on other teams that SEEM just a cut above many of ours. Overall change isnt going to happen over night though. Here's basically the list of guys: Vinny Curry (I wouldn't hate this swap with equivalent contracts) Akeem Ayers: Sucks Junior Galette: Serial Domestic Abuser Lamarr Houston: Mediocre Connor Barwin: Mediocre Tamba Hali: Has been done for 3 years James Harrison: Done Pernell McPhee: Mediocre KeKe Mingo: Sucks Arthur Moats: Mediocre to Sucks Aldon Smith: Suspended for what I assume is forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 As I said....it will take time. You cant overhaul a roster in one cycle - especially when you've got one position pulling down serious CAP %. In some ways, I'm envious of those teams breathing the fresh air of success in a long while.....cause they've got the rookie contract wind in their sails. Edit Add On: Change that from one position (QB) and throw in the WR's - so its a combined pull on the CAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Leader said: If Gute is now going to be more aggressive - using the TRIAD of NFL weapons: Draft, FA & Trades - more than TT did - good - cause I see other teams doing it - and - I see players on other teams that SEEM just a cut above many of ours. Overall change isnt going to happen over night though. Except the only feasible way to really improve your EDGE situation is through the draft. Quality pass rushers don't become available in FA, and teams certainly aren't open to trading theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Would everyone agree that the one aspect PFF can get close to accurate is pass rushers? Because Matthews just had his best year since 2014 according to them in a year where everybody here said he was "done," "too old," "crap." That was almost exclusively at pass rusher. If Pettine was serious about utilizing Clay's versatility, he's going to have a hell of a year for us. He was also our third highest graded defensive player last year according to that one assessment from that one guy. Just behind Daniels and Clark. One of your best posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: Except the only feasible way to really improve your EDGE situation is through the draft. Quality pass rushers don't become available in FA, and teams certainly aren't open to trading theirs. Agree. So it becomes more challenging. So perhaps we need to forgoe 19 million draft selections and XZY UDFAs to GO GET THE GUY in the draft. But - we have to identify him first - and I've also been wondering what with all the defections from our scouting/personnel depts of TOP talent - are we as sharp as we need to be? These arent criticisms. Just wondering out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 17 hours ago, ROBOKOP said: Looking how active the Packers have been in free agency, our next overpaid and under-performing guy on the decline is Matthews. With a cap savings of 11 mil, does he make it on the roster, or does he go if we get Kyle Fuller or other CB help? I think the smart choice is to send him packing. If they cut Clay, they might as well trade Rodgers too and start over. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, Leader said: Agree. So it becomes more challenging. So perhaps we need to forgoe 19 million draft selections and XZY UDFAs to GO GET THE GUY in the draft. But - we have to identify him first - and I've also been wondering what with all the defections from our scouting/personnel depts of TOP talent - are we as sharp as we need to be? These arent criticisms. Just wondering out loud. Outside of Bradley Chubb, is there any pass rusher in this year's draft that you're confident will be a stud? Unless the answer is yes, there's no reason to make that trade up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: Outside of Bradley Chubb, is there any pass rusher in this year's draft that you're confident will be a stud? Unless the answer is yes, there's no reason to make that trade up. Chubb's the only name I'm hearing in the "sure fire" difference maker category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, Mr. Fussnputz said: If they cut Clay, they might as well trade Rodgers too and start over. JMO. I ran out of likes, but this is really how cut and dry it is. If we want to win in 2018, we keep Matthews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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