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Humble_Beast

2018 Depth Chart...How do you see it?

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Sorry mate, but this is totally unrealistic to me...

Why get Fitz for 12M if we keep Carr? Fitz is a terrible fit to Gruden's O anyway IMO.

Thomas, Graham, Mosley, Brown, Darby, Veldheer, Hogan, James and Telvin as a FA haul is crazy...also most of those contracts are off IMO

Can't see Melvin back after his Twitter messages and his benching.

The draft I like a lot in the 1st especially.

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2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Draft     Nick Bosa Edge 1a Devin White LB 1b Deionte Thompson S 1c Josh Allen LB 2 Hakeem Butler WR 3 Trevon Coney LB 4 Max Scharping T/G 5 Dontavius Russell DL 6 Gary Jennings WR 7a Chris Lindstrom G 7b

Bosa, White, Thompson at all top 10 picks. Allen will go in round 1. And Butler will likely see his stock elevate to a 1 at least a 2. So pretty unrealistic draft IMO.

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I can’t understand why people keep trying to say the Raiders will sign Fitzpatrick. There’s no future with him, and if you’re thinking of drafting a guy next year or the year after how does keeping Carr change that? Keep Carr in year 2 see what happens and draft a guy in 2020 with one of the first rounders you have if he’s not good. 

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4 hours ago, Rolni said:

Sorry mate, but this is totally unrealistic to me...

Why get Fitz for 12M if we keep Carr? Fitz is a terrible fit to Gruden's O anyway IMO.

Thomas, Graham, Mosley, Brown, Darby, Veldheer, Hogan, James and Telvin as a FA haul is crazy...also most of those contracts are off IMO

Can't see Melvin back after his Twitter messages and his benching.

The draft I like a lot in the 1st especially.

First, Fitz's fit in the offense is up for debate but the need for a QB that can start and take over for Carr is not.  We need someone who can win us a few games if we have to pull the plug.  Say what you want to defend Carr but if his play does start to improve by seasons end and carries over into next season he should not start for us.  For all the reasons why he is set up to fail he still looks like he is broken.  Not going to have the chicken or the egg debate about him but to me there is no question about getting someone who can step in right away.  Our best bet this off-season is Fitz like it or not.  Another disastrous season and it could set the rebuild back a few years that Mark and Jon do not have.  Some improvement is needed in year 2.

Second, the FA period is unrealistic.  I said that I just wanted to show how much cap we can have and the turnover in personnel that is possible.  If we get rid of under-performing and overpaid players we should have the most cap in the league.

Third, Melvin I am not sure about but was just an option that maybe could improve with another year in the same situation.  I had him as the 3rd CB and possibly 4th depending on Nelson's growth.

Not saying you are wrong and I am right but this was my reasoning.

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3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Bosa, White, Thompson at all top 10 picks. Allen will go in round 1. And Butler will likely see his stock elevate to a 1 at least a 2. So pretty unrealistic draft IMO.

Players are going to fall and some will rise.  Would you call me crazy if I told you last year we would pass on Derwin James at 10 and then again at 15.  Just about everyone had him as a top 3-5 pick.  As the draft approaches we will have a better idea but crazy stuff still happens every year that most do not see coming.  As far as Butler is concerned a lot will come down to his 40 time.  He has a long stride so he could just look like he is not quick.  He does look like he could have some problems going up against NFL DBs.  Looks like the type of player that could jump into the top 15 or drop to the 4th because of the combine.

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3 hours ago, Chali21 said:

I can’t understand why people keep trying to say the Raiders will sign Fitzpatrick. There’s no future with him, and if you’re thinking of drafting a guy next year or the year after how does keeping Carr change that? Keep Carr in year 2 see what happens and draft a guy in 2020 with one of the first rounders you have if he’s not good. 

You have to have a fall back plan for Carr.  I doubt, even if we sign a ton of talent like in my mock, the players around Carr are going to elevate his play back to 2016.  New system and a ton of new players will take time to learn to play together.  Carr needs his team to play well around him and do their jobs properly.  Fitz can come in and create for himself.  He would most likely run into a lot of issues because of the situation but but Carr does not have the mental ability too take a beating and perform.  He starts to panic.  I do not think there is a way you can look at the 2 QBs and say that Carr is better this year.  Fitz's mental toughness was shown when after getting yanked for a player who is worse than him he did not cry or or get angry.  He just went out and played.  His defense put him in a horrible position and he still just played.  He made mistakes but gave it everything he had.  Carr looks broken or he knows the tank is on so he quit and fell to the ground when the wind blew to hard.  Last weeks game was on the same level as the butt fumble but lasted the entire game except the first series.

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1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

You have to have a fall back plan for Carr.  I doubt, even if we sign a ton of talent like in my mock, the players around Carr are going to elevate his play back to 2016.  New system and a ton of new players will take time to learn to play together.  Carr needs his team to play well around him and do their jobs properly.  Fitz can come in and create for himself.  He would most likely run into a lot of issues because of the situation but but Carr does not have the mental ability too take a beating and perform.  He starts to panic.  I do not think there is a way you can look at the 2 QBs and say that Carr is better this year.  Fitz's mental toughness was shown when after getting yanked for a player who is worse than him he did not cry or or get angry.  He just went out and played.  His defense put him in a horrible position and he still just played.  He made mistakes but gave it everything he had.  Carr looks broken or he knows the tank is on so he quit and fell to the ground when the wind blew to hard.  Last weeks game was on the same level as the butt fumble but lasted the entire game except the first series.

I have a couple of Questions:

1. You say a fall back option is needed. Are you proposing that the Raiders have both Fitz and Carr? 

2. I will agree that Fitz has been pretty good this season and has been better than Carr. However, do you think that Fitz can reproduce this with the Raiders? 

3. Do you think that Carr’s line has been giving him enough time? Do you think Fitz would be able to duplicate his numbers with this line and these pass catchers?

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11 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

I have a couple of Questions:

1. You say a fall back option is needed. Are you proposing that the Raiders have both Fitz and Carr? 

2. I will agree that Fitz has been pretty good this season and has been better than Carr. However, do you think that Fitz can reproduce this with the Raiders? 

3. Do you think that Carr’s line has been giving him enough time? Do you think Fitz would be able to duplicate his numbers with this line and these pass catchers?

1. No. Way too much money. And Fitz is an awful fit for our scheme.

2. Fitz never produces for one more than one season at a time.

3. Our line has been terrible, especially the past few weeks. And no. Mike Evans is better than all our WRs combined

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4 hours ago, riceman80 said:

1. No. Way too much money. And Fitz is an awful fit for our scheme.

2. Fitz never produces for one more than one season at a time.

3. Our line has been terrible, especially the past few weeks. And no. Mike Evans is better than all our WRs combined

 

5 hours ago, Chali21 said:

I have a couple of Questions:

1. You say a fall back option is needed. Are you proposing that the Raiders have both Fitz and Carr? 

2. I will agree that Fitz has been pretty good this season and has been better than Carr. However, do you think that Fitz can reproduce this with the Raiders? 

3. Do you think that Carr’s line has been giving him enough time? Do you think Fitz would be able to duplicate his numbers with this line and these pass catchers?

1. All QBs would have a hard time producing in our scheme with our current players.  The point was next year when we have better players and Carr does not show improvement.  If he shows that it was just the talent around him then great.  If it is another year like this year or Carr can not improve we need another QB that can come in and provide some hope and win a few games.  Not take us to the playoffs but prove that Carr was a big part of the issue and we need to go in a different direction.  If next year we go 1-7 with Carr and he gets pulled for AJ McCarron who goes 0-8 or 1-7 this franchise will look lost.  The perception around the league will set us back even further.  We are going to over spend on FAs anyways.  Why not have a security blanket in our back pocket that can create when the team around him breaks down.  Watch some of the Bucs games and you will see he is not getting the greatest protection right now either.  Fitz also had a decent game last week while only connecting with Mike Evens once for 16 yards.  Fitz will be the best QB on the market next off season if he gets there.

2. Carr career passer rating is 88 and Fitz 81.  Never said Fitz was in previous years better than Carr but this year he is and Carr looks like he is having some issues with panicking.  His numbers look decent and the TD/INT ratio could easily be from a change in system but when you watch the games I see things that make me think he is scared and this year was not beginning of it.  I am willing to give him time but there are reasons to think he has something going on in his head that are not fixable.  If all hell is breaking loose I believe Fitz is the better QB to have under center.  If Carr can quite himself and we can get some talent around him than I believe he would be a better choice.  We just do not know.  My opinion in the mock is my opinion right now.  The light bulb could turn on this week for Carr and I will be happy.  He is my QB right now so I am pulling for him but I do not know if it will happen.

3.  No Carr is not getting enough time and maybe Fitz would not put up the same numbers as Carr but he at least would look like he is trying to win.  I do not know if Carr and Gruden are doing this on purpose but it looks really bad.  Could be by design where Gruden told Carr do not worry about this year.  Just learn the system and things will fall into place when we get more talent.  I can not tell you what their intentions are but what I see looks like a FO, coach, and QB that do not inspire confidence.  I see the complete opposite when I watch Tampa.  That team keeps fighting no matter what and it looks like they are doing it for Fitz.  I am not a Bucs fan but I enjoy watching their games this year.  There is drama and intensity.  They look like us in 2016 without all the luck and if they would have not pulled Fitz against the Bears they could have been 5-3.  Not saying they would have beat the Bears but could have pulled out 2 of the 3 other losses.

My overall point was that with the way things are going we need a viable option next year so we can at least look like we are trying to win some games.  Getting the best QB on the market next year without using draft picks and signing him too a team friendly deal would go along way to instill some confidence back into this team.  It might also motivate Carr to take some chances.  Right now it looks like he is trying to protect his contract by not getting hurt.  This way he knows to get payed he must earn it.

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30 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

 

1. All QBs would have a hard time producing in our scheme with our current players.  The point was next year when we have better players and Carr does not show improvement.  If he shows that it was just the talent around him then great.  If it is another year like this year or Carr can not improve we need another QB that can come in and provide some hope and win a few games.  Not take us to the playoffs but prove that Carr was a big part of the issue and we need to go in a different direction.  If next year we go 1-7 with Carr and he gets pulled for AJ McCarron who goes 0-8 or 1-7 this franchise will look lost.  The perception around the league will set us back even further.  We are going to over spend on FAs anyways.  Why not have a security blanket in our back pocket that can create when the team around him breaks down.  Watch some of the Bucs games and you will see he is not getting the greatest protection right now either.  Fitz also had a decent game last week while only connecting with Mike Evens once for 16 yards.  Fitz will be the best QB on the market next off season if he gets there.

2. Carr career passer rating is 88 and Fitz 81.  Never said Fitz was in previous years better than Carr but this year he is and Carr looks like he is having some issues with panicking.  His numbers look decent and the TD/INT ratio could easily be from a change in system but when you watch the games I see things that make me think he is scared and this year was not beginning of it.  I am willing to give him time but there are reasons to think he has something going on in his head that are not fixable.  If all hell is breaking loose I believe Fitz is the better QB to have under center.  If Carr can quite himself and we can get some talent around him than I believe he would be a better choice.  We just do not know.  My opinion in the mock is my opinion right now.  The light bulb could turn on this week for Carr and I will be happy.  He is my QB right now so I am pulling for him but I do not know if it will happen.

3.  No Carr is not getting enough time and maybe Fitz would not put up the same numbers as Carr but he at least would look like he is trying to win.  I do not know if Carr and Gruden are doing this on purpose but it looks really bad.  Could be by design where Gruden told Carr do not worry about this year.  Just learn the system and things will fall into place when we get more talent.  I can not tell you what their intentions are but what I see looks like a FO, coach, and QB that do not inspire confidence.  I see the complete opposite when I watch Tampa.  That team keeps fighting no matter what and it looks like they are doing it for Fitz.  I am not a Bucs fan but I enjoy watching their games this year.  There is drama and intensity.  They look like us in 2016 without all the luck and if they would have not pulled Fitz against the Bears they could have been 5-3.  Not saying they would have beat the Bears but could have pulled out 2 of the 3 other losses.

My overall point was that with the way things are going we need a viable option next year so we can at least look like we are trying to win some games.  Getting the best QB on the market next year without using draft picks and signing him too a team friendly deal would go along way to instill some confidence back into this team.  It might also motivate Carr to take some chances.  Right now it looks like he is trying to protect his contract by not getting hurt.  This way he knows to get payed he must earn it.

He's not gonna sign on a team friendly deal. Someone is gonna give him starting QB money for his play this season and the draft next year is trash for QBs which will only boost his value. He's the best QB in offseason completely devoid of QB talent. He's gonna get paid.

I agree with you that it'd be wise to have a contingency plan but if we sign Fitz, it'd be cause we got rid of Carr. Otherwise you're looking at spending 40 millionish minimum for 2 QBs to be on the roster

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To the QB debate:

 

I think that Jon needs to decide to roll with Carr or move on.

If he rolls with Carr, he needs to coach him up, he need to build up his comfort level, he needs to make the squad, especially the OL better around him.

Bringing in a new, high priced veteran QB is not the move you make in a situation like that.

If we stick with Carr, we should just keep McCarron as his back up and totally focus on the OL, recievers, RBs during the offseason. 

Fitz is a high risktaker, who lives and dies by his risky throws. Gruden wants a high % completion offense, where the most important trait for the QB is precision, accuracy and good decision making...definately not Fitz game.

 

If Gruden wants to move on he needs a high draft pick and a stop gap guy IMO. McCarron could be an option or a guy like McCown maybe. The complicated thing here is that this QB class is pretty weak, especially if Herbert returns to school or if the Giants get an earlier pick.

 

 

I can't see any solid QB hitting the market, so I think we need and should keep Carr and McCarron on board and build up the roster.

If Carr struggles again behind a better OL, better talent then we need to retool at QB in 2020. If Carr struggles we can check McCarron as a stop gap, he at least fits the WCO scheme.

We will have 2 first round pick next year too and if Carr struggles we will have another early on our own right, so we should be in solid position for make a run at our QB of choice in a stronger class.

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7 hours ago, Rolni said:

To the QB debate:

 

I think that Jon needs to decide to roll with Carr or move on.

If he rolls with Carr, he needs to coach him up, he need to build up his comfort level, he needs to make the squad, especially the OL better around him.

Bringing in a new, high priced veteran QB is not the move you make in a situation like that.

If we stick with Carr, we should just keep McCarron as his back up and totally focus on the OL, recievers, RBs during the offseason. 

Fitz is a high risktaker, who lives and dies by his risky throws. Gruden wants a high % completion offense, where the most important trait for the QB is precision, accuracy and good decision making...definately not Fitz game.

 

If Gruden wants to move on he needs a high draft pick and a stop gap guy IMO. McCarron could be an option or a guy like McCown maybe. The complicated thing here is that this QB class is pretty weak, especially if Herbert returns to school or if the Giants get an earlier pick.

 

 

I can't see any solid QB hitting the market, so I think we need and should keep Carr and McCarron on board and build up the roster.

If Carr struggles again behind a better OL, better talent then we need to retool at QB in 2020. If Carr struggles we can check McCarron as a stop gap, he at least fits the WCO scheme.

We will have 2 first round pick next year too and if Carr struggles we will have another early on our own right, so we should be in solid position for make a run at our QB of choice in a stronger class.

This is how I see it too. With two first rounders in 2020 the Raiders have more than enough ammo to move up to get a QB if they don't think Carr the guy.

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16 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Players are going to fall and some will rise.  Would you call me crazy if I told you last year we would pass on Derwin James at 10 and then again at 15.  Just about everyone had him as a top 3-5 pick.  As the draft approaches we will have a better idea but crazy stuff still happens every year that most do not see coming.  As far as Butler is concerned a lot will come down to his 40 time.  He has a long stride so he could just look like he is not quick.  He does look like he could have some problems going up against NFL DBs.  Looks like the type of player that could jump into the top 15 or drop to the 4th because of the combine.

There were 4 QBs in last years class which push talent down. There isn't 1 QB right now you can say is a top 5 pick, so the value will distribute differently. But I see what you're saying.

 

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2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

There were 4 QBs in last years class which push talent down. There isn't 1 QB right now you can say is a top 5 pick, so the value will distribute differently. But I see what you're saying.

 

Also the demand for a QB isn't as high this season. There aren't too many teams looking to start over at the position.

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2 hours ago, Chali21 said:

Also the demand for a QB isn't as high this season. There aren't too many teams looking to start over at the position.

Jags, Dolphins, Giants, Bucs, Broncos for sure

Plus Rivers, Brady, Brees, and Roethlisberger are all possible retirees

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