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squire12

Mike Pettine Defense

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8 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Did you not read the OP.....

 

 

I guess my response to both of those questions is that Pettine's defense looks like every NFL defense on the surface.

He plays a lot of nickel defense with 2 down lineman, 2 edge rushers, 2 Inside linebackers, 5 DBs. 

His nickel defense lines up the "UT" in the strong side B gap. His "NT" lines up in the Weakside A gap. 

He plays the vast majority of his reps with a safety in the box down on the weak side, so his ILBs cheat to the strong side, though they occasionally cheat one way and flip the opposite when the safety comes down into the box.

If you're looking for deviations from Capers . . . I mean . . . 

His defense is simpler. He doesn't run the same number of blitz packages with exotic personnel. 

He doesn't substitute as much which probably goes in line with the point above. He's not opposed to playing the occasional 2nd and 6 down against 11 personnel with his base personnel on the field. He doesn't do it often, but he does it occasionally. Capers never did that. 

He plays more Cover-6 than Capers does. Discounting Capers final year here (which flew in the face of many career norms), Capers was always a Cover-1/3 guy. Pettine runs a good amount of Cover-6.

Pettine blitzes his ILBs more than Capers did from what I've observed. This one is a small sample size observation, I haven't done the tracking to state this point beyond a doubt. 

+++

As far as players go, he needs a CB that can be left on an island. The defense flows around that principle.

Stuff the run, shift your coverages towrds your weaker DBs, apply pressure. It's not a complex defense. 

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1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

He plays a lot of nickel defense with 2 down lineman, 2 edge rushers, 2 Inside linebackers, 5 DBs. 

So are those Edge rushers similar in body types ( not sure that is the correct word I am looking for) to what GB used under Capers?

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1 minute ago, squire12 said:

So are those Edge rushers similar in body types ( not sure that is the correct word I am looking for) to what GB used under Capers?

Hard to say really. He hasn't been in one place long enough to really figure out what his preferences are. I'd say he likes guys that are big, fast, can rush the passer, and can hold up against the run, but that's what every DC wants. He seems to like having one bigger guy (Super Mario, Kruger) and one smaller guy (Hughes, Mingo)

It's really hard to say what he wants. He hasn't been in one place long enough to really establish significant trends. 

You look at the draft classes

2009 Jets: No defensive players selected

2010 Jets: CB, Kyle Wilson 1st round

2011: Muhammad Wilkerson 1st round, Kenrick Ellis 3rd round

2012: Quinton Coples 1st round, Demario Davis 3rd round, Josh Bush Safety 5th round, Antonio Allen Safety 7th round

2013: Kiko Alonso 2nd round, Duke Williams Safety 4th round, Jonathan Meeks Safety 5th round,

2014: Justin Gilbert 4th overall, Christian Kirksey 4th round, Pierre Desir 4th round

2015: Danny Shelton 12th overall, Nate Orchard 2nd, Xavier Cooper 3rd round, Ibrahiem Campbell 4th, Charles Gaines 6th, Hayes Pullard 7th, Ifo Olumu 7th

 

1st round picks: Kyle Wilson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Quinton Coples, Justin Gilbert, Danny Shelton

2CBs, 2Bigs, 1 Tweener Rusher

Seems to like CBs and big DTs. 

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7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Hard to say really. He hasn't been in one place long enough to really figure out what his preferences are. I'd say he likes guys that are big, fast, can rush the passer, and can hold up against the run, but that's what every DC wants. He seems to like having one bigger guy (Super Mario, Kruger) and one smaller guy (Hughes, Mingo)

It's really hard to say what he wants. He hasn't been in one place long enough to really establish significant trends. 

You look at the draft classes

2009 Jets: No defensive players selected

2010 Jets: CB, Kyle Wilson 1st round

2011: Muhammad Wilkerson 1st round, Kenrick Ellis 3rd round

2012: Quinton Coples 1st round, Demario Davis 3rd round, Josh Bush Safety 5th round, Antonio Allen Safety 7th round

2013: Kiko Alonso 2nd round, Duke Williams Safety 4th round, Jonathan Meeks Safety 5th round,

2014: Justin Gilbert 4th overall, Christian Kirksey 4th round, Pierre Desir 4th round

2015: Danny Shelton 12th overall, Nate Orchard 2nd, Xavier Cooper 3rd round, Ibrahiem Campbell 4th, Charles Gaines 6th, Hayes Pullard 7th, Ifo Olumu 7th

 

1st round picks: Kyle Wilson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Quinton Coples, Justin Gilbert, Danny Shelton

2CBs, 2Bigs, 1 Tweener Rusher

Seems to like CBs and big DTs. 

Based on that we'll grab a CB.

Actually based on our lack of CB we'll grab a CB. 

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16 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

As far as players go, he needs a CB that can be left on an island.

That part worries me.

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21 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

That part worries me.

Me too. Wasn't Joe Haden injured in 2015? I'm curious how Pettine handled that sitation. 

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

That part worries me.

Unless you think King can be that guy.

 

If not, I think the Fuller offer sheet at least suggests that things like a trade for a player or moving up for a CB would at least be seriously considered.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/18/2018 at 12:10 PM, spilltray said:

Unless you think King can be that guy.

 

If not, I think the Fuller offer sheet at least suggests that things like a trade for a player or moving up for a CB would at least be seriously considered.

Yes, the Fuller move shows Gutey knows CB is still a hole we need to address.

OT - has there been any news about interest in Morgan Burnett out there?

Edit:  Burnett is going to sign with Pitt.  I wonder what they will be paying him....

Edited by Pugger

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6 minutes ago, Pugger said:

Yes, the Fuller move shows Gutey knows CB is still a hole we need to address.

OT - has there been any news about interest in Morgan Burnett out there?

Not just that it's a hole but all serious options are on the table. They are willing to pay a reasonably high price.

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All I can say to you Mr. Pettine is good luck trying to do something with this defensive "talent."

There cannot be a LESS talented combination of OBLs/ILBs/CBs/Ss on any other NFL roster right now

(And yes the Pack will undoubtedly go D heavily yet again in the upcoming draft, but even picking relatively high at 14, counting on significant contributions from multiple rookies is just being foolish).

For those wondering how a defense can possibly be this bereft of talent, consider the following round 1-3 defensive picks since 2012 who will NOT be assets for the Packers in 2018: 

Jerrel Worthy, Casey Hayward, Datone Jones, Damarious Randall, Khyri Thornton, Quinten Rollins, and Kyler Fackrell (the jury remains out on last year's picks, King, Jones, and Adams who collectively did next to nothing as rookies). 

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10 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

All I can say to you Mr. Pettine is good luck trying to do something with this defensive "talent."

There cannot be a LESS talented combination of OBLs/ILBs/CBs/Ss on any other NFL roster right now

(And yes the Pack will undoubtedly go D heavily yet again in the upcoming draft, but even picking relatively high at 14, counting on significant contributions from multiple rookies is just being foolish).

For those wondering how a defense can possibly be this bereft of talent, consider the following round 1-3 defensive picks since 2012 who will NOT be assets for the Packers in 2018: 

Jerrel Worthy, Casey Hayward, Datone Jones, Damarious Randall, Khyri Thornton, Quinten Rollins, and Kyler Fackrell (the jury remains out on last year's picks, King, Jones, and Adams who collectively did next to nothing as rookies). 

Front 7 is Gucci imo, just need to give the man a damn secondary.

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57 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

All I can say to you Mr. Pettine is good luck trying to do something with this defensive "talent."

There cannot be a LESS talented combination of OBLs/ILBs/CBs/Ss on any other NFL roster right now

(And yes the Pack will undoubtedly go D heavily yet again in the upcoming draft, but even picking relatively high at 14, counting on significant contributions from multiple rookies is just being foolish).

For those wondering how a defense can possibly be this bereft of talent, consider the following round 1-3 defensive picks since 2012 who will NOT be assets for the Packers in 2018: 

Jerrel Worthy, Casey Hayward, Datone Jones, Damarious Randall, Khyri Thornton, Quinten Rollins, and Kyler Fackrell (the jury remains out on last year's picks, King, Jones, and Adams who collectively did next to nothing as rookies). 

Idk..... I don't think GB's LB's are the worst. Probably more middle of the pack or slightly higher. Matthews still has it, just have to watch his tape from last year to see that. His sack count doesn't do his overall play justice. Perry is good when healthy. Martinez is an ascending player. I'd rate him as above average at least, and he'll only get better. 

Secondary is horrid. Don't think anyone can argue against that. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Kepler said:

Idk..... I don't think GB's LB's are the worst. Probably more middle of the pack or slightly higher. Matthews still has it, just have to watch his tape from last year to see that. His sack count doesn't do his overall play justice. Perry is good when healthy. Martinez is an ascending player. I'd rate him as above average at least, and he'll only get better. 

Secondary is horrid. Don't think anyone can argue against that. 

The weakest part of the D in 2017 was arguably OLB.

Matthews is still a decent situational pass rusher. He just is not an every down guy anymore (though he was forced to play snaps like he was one last season). He has not reached double digit sacks at OLB in what 6 seasons?

As for Perry, his most distinctive characteristic going into year 7 is what? He gets injured.  A lot.

So, behind the aged (and oft-injured himself) Clay and the oft-injured Perry, there is what? Gilbert, Odom, and Biegel combined for what ZERO sacks last season? And then there is Kyler F'ing Fackrell. Oh boy.

I agree that Martinez is a middle of the pack or slightly ILBer. Unfortunately, Ryan is not. And theres is NOTHING behind them.

Offseason is not over and here's hoping the 1st round pick makes an impact (in 2018), but what a collection of "talent" Pettine has been gifted outside the Defensive LIne.

Edited by TheOnlyThing

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6 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

The weakest part of the D in 2017 was arguably OLB.

Matthews is still a decent situational pass rusher. He just is not an every down guy anymore (though he was forced to play snaps like he was one last season). He has not reached double digit sacks at OLB in what 6 seasons?

As for Perry, his most distinctive characteristic going into year 7 is what? He gets injured.  A lot.

So, behind the aged (and oft-injured himself) Clay and the oft-injured Perry, there is what? Gilbert, Odom, and Biegel combined for what ZERO sacks last season? And then there is Kyler F'ing Fackrell. Oh boy.

I agree that Martinez is a middle of the pack or slightly ILBer. Unfortunately, Ryan is not. And theres is NOTHING behind them.

Offseason is not over and here's hoping the 1st round pick makes an impact (in 2018), but what a collection of "talent" Pettine has been gifted outside the Defensive LIne.

I'm still going to disagree about Matthews. PFF had him rated in the low to mid 80's for last season and he was still really disruptive no matter how many snaps he plays. The sacks weren't there but like I said, look past the numbers and watch his play. 

I think if they take a highly rated EDGE this year the rush will be fine. Hopefully that has a big effect on the secondary though, because right now that unit looks depleted. 

The new league year is only a week old so I still have some hope. If we go into training camp with this secondary then I'll be seriously disappointed. 

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I thought Clay did two things very well last year.  

#1...Blitzed a guard/tackle gap as an ILB.  Timed them nicely, and if the OL gives him a shoulder, he's by them in no time.  I thought he was very effective as an inside blitzer.

#2...Coverage from the ILB position.  Guy has a knack for knowing zones and routes.  Reads and reacts very quickly and hits with force.  I think he caused a pick on a bobbled ball and maybe caused a fumble or an incompletion as well.  I really liked how he played the short passes.

I think this team will need him as an OLB to start, but I'm hoping that they either find a rookie capable of rushing as an OLB on obvious passing downs, or Biegle takes a huge leap forward in that role.  Moving Clay inside more would be good for that defense.

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