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Mike Pettine Defense

squire12

By squire12
in Green Bay Packers

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AlexGreen#20

AlexGreen#20

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, squire12 said:

He can ask Biegel to do those things....whether Biegel is capable of doing them effectively is another conversation altogether

I don't doubt that Biegel is capable of redirecting against most guys. 

Pass rusher is a specialist role though, and I like specialists to stay specialists and my generalists to stay generalists.

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Arthur Penske

Arthur Penske

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16 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Article on Vnce Biegel's offseason via Badgerland:

http://uwbadgers.com/news/2018/7/12/football-lucas-biegel-focused-on-breaking-through-for-packers.aspx

 

"Biegel is in the unique position where he's playing for his fourth defensive coordinator in four seasons, a list that includes Dave Aranda, Justin Wilcox, Dom Capers and now Mike Pettine."He (Pettine) is all business," Biegel said, "with a ton of football knowledge."

 

During a trip to Madison, Biegel ran into UW defensive coordinator Jim Leonhard, who played for Pettine in Buffalo and Cleveland. Leonhard schooled him on what to expect out of Pettine's defense. In fact, they even watched some film together with Leonhard handling the narration.

"Coach Pettine has asked me to do a lot of things that I was doing at Wisconsin," said Biegel. "Like line up on a wide receiver and reroute him. Like cover wheel routes on running backs. "Versatility is very important at outside linebacker. Dave Aranda asked me to do those things early-on for him and Coach Pettine has asked me to do the same."

I didn't realize he had surgery on both of his feet.

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Ragnar Danneskjold

Ragnar Danneskjold

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1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I don't doubt that Biegel is capable of redirecting against most guys. 

Pass rusher is a specialist role though, and I like specialists to stay specialists and my generalists to stay generalists.

I would think if Pettine stays true to his roots in Rex Ryan's philosophy, at least one OLB position will be more of a generalist, and not a pass rush specialist.

Personally I think that is a good thing, getting back to having some uncertainty to the rush as opposed to Capers later years where essentially our OLB's had become undersized DE's starting from a 2 point stance.  In Capers early years he had the uncertainty with zone drops, but for some reason that went away over the years.

People don't believe it, but Kyler Fackrell could become a very effective piece in the new system depending on how Pettine moves forward.

Hard to say for sure since we have yet to see the scheme in action.

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Norm

Norm

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14 minutes ago, Arthur Pensky said:

Obviously Hindsight is 20/20 and I like Kevin King, but do you guys think this defense would be in better shape if Watt would have been taken last year instead of King?

Interesting thought I've never heard brought up ever. Lol sorry I had to

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Shanedorf

Shanedorf

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Posted
4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

 

Pass rusher is a specialist role though, and I like specialists to stay specialists and my generalists to stay generalists.

Here's what Palmy wrote post-draft about Vince Biegel:

LB Biegel: "Biegel was one of mine but got pulled on medical with a foot before I graded him out. Very good college football player. At the very least he should be a ACE level ST's player if he stays healthy. I have my doubts about his ability to set the edge in this Capers D or beat NFL tackles in the passing game. Motor always runs hot though and I'm sure he'll land an effort sack or two along the way. I just think there is a good chance he has a good bit more upside as an off the ball LB at the next level. Smart, tough, and hard working though. Nice guy to have around on gameday. Can sure as hell get you out of a game or two at any of them on the second level"

If Pettine moves back and forth from 3-4 to 4-3 principles, doesn't it make sense to train these guys on multiple techniques ? And given the comments above, it would seem that Vince might have some value in doing a variety of different things on Sunday. Pettine is often praised for adapting his defense to the players he has on the roster. He even said "you can't win with the players you don't have" in his presser

Much of this strategic discussion is over my head on the football side, I'm just sharing what I've read and heard.

I also take a decidedly more optimistic view of the world than many most of the posters here.  Biegel getting a one-on-one film session with Jim Leonhard, a former player under Pettine and a rising star DC is a very good thing in my view.

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SSG

SSG

Posted
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4 hours ago, Arthur Pensky said:

Obviously Hindsight is 20/20 and I like Kevin King, but do you guys think this defense would be in better shape if Watt would have been taken last year instead of King?

Yup.  Had we used the first 2 picks on Watt and Ahkello Witherspoon we'd be substantially better at both OLB and CB.  Not only was Witherspoon a substantially better player than King as  a rookie but he's every bit the athlete with the same sort of upside.  Witherspoon also isn't the significant injury risk that Kevin King is.  

I'd much rather have Watt and Witherspoon over King, Jones and Beigel all of whom looked like significant projects last year.

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craig

craig

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Biegel, Odom, Gilbert, (and even Fackrel), all guys looking for a chance to step up, to be used, and to be good.  

Would do a world of good if a couple of them just emerged as good, legit NFL players, guys that we don't regret having on the field and playing significant snaps.  Heh heh, would be fun if we felt several of them were good, but they had limited opportunity just because Matthews and Perry were both healthy and hungry and playing really well.  

Hard to imagine Biegel as any great impact pressure guy.  But coverage-sacks and effort-sacks and cleanup-sacks and second-guy-in-after-first-guy-chases-QB-out-of-pocket are all still sacks.  

One thing I'm hoping for is a lot more "smarts" on defense.  Tramon, Matthews, Martinez, Daniels, I think we're going to have some smart guys playing. 

Think Biegel and both Jaire and Jackson and King all have a chance to be smart, quick-decision quick-recognition players.  

Kinda worry there with Josh Jones, but hoping for the best.  

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Packerraymond

Packerraymond

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59 minutes ago, SSG said:

Yup.  Had we used the first 2 picks on Watt and Ahkello Witherspoon we'd be substantially better at both OLB and CB.  Not only was Witherspoon a substantially better player than King as  a rookie but he's every bit the athlete with the same sort of upside.  Witherspoon also isn't the significant injury risk that Kevin King is.  

I'd much rather have Watt and Witherspoon over King, Jones and Beigel all of whom looked like significant projects last year.

This is all true (minus King being a significant injury risk, that's not true at all.)

However, no one had Witherspoon over King pre draft. I'd rather have Carl Lawson over Watt, but no one would've said that on draft day. Just can't let that stuff bug you. With that all said, I'm still taking King over Witherspoon if you're looking at potential.

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AlexGreen#20

AlexGreen#20

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

This is all true (minus King being a significant injury risk, that's not true at all.)

However, no one had Witherspoon over King pre draft. I'd rather have Carl Lawson over Watt, but no one would've said that on draft day. Just can't let that stuff bug you. With that all said, I'm still taking King over Witherspoon if you're looking at potential.

Not with Lawson's knee you don't

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Packerraymond

Packerraymond

Posted
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8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Not with Lawson's knee you don't

True, if I'm looking at entire career path with how they'll hold up. If I'm just taking a pass rusher based on how they play it's Lawson. I didn't think the brute strength with OK athletic ability would hold up, but I saw it live at Lambeau last year, guy is a beast.

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Arthur Penske

Arthur Penske

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1 hour ago, SSG said:

Yup.  Had we used the first 2 picks on Watt and Ahkello Witherspoon we'd be substantially better at both OLB and CB.  Not only was Witherspoon a substantially better player than King as  a rookie but he's every bit the athlete with the same sort of upside.  Witherspoon also isn't the significant injury risk that Kevin King is.  

I'd much rather have Watt and Witherspoon over King, Jones and Beigel all of whom looked like significant projects last year.

Nope. 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ahkello-witherspoon?id=2558157

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kevin-king?id=2557996

And I won't go there on Witherspoon> King either because it was King's rookie season with a busted wing. Also, King had one injury in one NFL year. Witherspoon could tear his knee up next year and then he's the injured one.

 

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