Jump to content

Mike Pettine Defense


squire12

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Everybody likes the idea of scheming a free rusher. It's just extremely difficult to do against non scrubs in the regular season.

It's entirely dependant on an offensive player making the wrong read. A good back makes the correct read on that play and picks up Brice, and we're all screaming and upset about how the middle of the field is open. There is no play called "free rusher". All you can do is make an inexperienced player have to make a decision and hope you can pull him into making the wrong one.

The calls for "schemed pressure" and "combo routes" show a significant misunderstanding of how schemes are developed. 

Just because two receivers don't cross each other and try and scrape somebody off doesn't mean it's not a concept. Zone floods, option routes, rollouts, etc are all "combo" routes.

While you're definitely correct on this, I think we're probably over-analyzing Fennell's wording here.  You always sacrifice coverage when you bring more rushers, but you can mitigate it a bit.  This is a nicely designed blitz, because it involves a bunch of misdirection all over the place that actually does work together: Martinez and Brice running a nice zone blitz that keeps the RB on the wrong side (along with Thomas lining up outside with Matthews to fake the stunt), Wilkerson/Gilbert both lining up wide and letting Wilkerson come hard across the guard's face to open the path for Brice, it all just plays nicely while not letting the QB easily hit his hot route.  

Having said a bunch of stuff you already know, I'll agree that this isn't some new thing that Capers couldn't fathom.  Capers ran plenty of exotic blitzes and coverages: he had to because Green Bay's CB group was nightmarish garbage the last two years.  There's a lot of people who hate on Capers for things that weren't his fault, or wanted him to do things he was already doing.  I love Pettine's approach so far and what he's shown, but he has the advantage of it being preseason, there not being film on him in Green Bay, and honestly significantly upgraded coverage units.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Everybody likes the idea of scheming a free rusher. It's just extremely difficult to do against non scrubs in the regular season.

It's entirely dependant on an offensive player making the wrong read. A good back makes the correct read on that play and picks up Brice, and we're all screaming and upset about how the middle of the field is open. There is no play called "free rusher". All you can do is make an inexperienced player have to make a decision and hope you can pull him into making the wrong one.

The calls for "schemed pressure" and "combo routes" show a significant misunderstanding of how schemes are developed. 

Just because two receivers don't cross each other and try and scrape somebody off doesn't mean it's not a concept. Zone floods, option routes, rollouts, etc are all "combo" routes.

 

Weird.  Rodgers doesn't seem like a scrub to me.  Or inexperienced.  He seems to like the changes, but I guess he hasn't talked to you about it yet.  Maybe he'll change his mind.   

 

I'm not sure I referenced a play called "free rusher."  I do love the touchdown play.  I just wish we would run it every time.  

 

I think I have a decent understanding of MM's offense.  I also understand that outside of 12, there isn't a QB in the league that could run it.  

https://www.all22.com/green-bay-packers/green-bay-packers-struggling-offense-flawed-by-design

https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/10/all-22-aaron-rodgers-packers-mike-mccarthy 

It isn't that MM threw every combo route out of his playbook.  He'll use the slant/flat at least 5 times a game.  He still likes his post/wheel as well, especially in 3x1 sets.  But we rarely see pre-snap adjustments with receivers in motion, stacked sets, etc. that just about every other team utilize on a regular basis in order to beat a defense.  The offense rarely goes 1-2 drives without reverting back quickly to those iso route concepts.  

 

The generalization I was trying to make (I'm starting to understand that you very much dislike any sort of generalization) is that both the offensive and defensive schemes over in MM's tenure have relied heavily on winning 1 on 1 match-ups.  The slow drain of talent since 2010 has rendered both sides of the ball rather ineffective due to the heavy reliance on winning those 1 on 1 battles.  The offense has gotten by because 12, 87, and 18 know what to do when the play inevitably breaks down.  Unfortunately the defense doesn't have an Aaron Rodgers difference maker.  

 

So.  On a defense void of a dominant pass rusher, I'll take a DC that can scheme up an unblocked rusher.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

I'll agree that this isn't some new thing that Capers couldn't fathom.  Capers ran plenty of exotic blitzes and coverages: he had to because Green Bay's CB group was nightmarish garbage the last two years.  There's a lot of people who hate on Capers for things that weren't his fault, or wanted him to do things he was already doing.  I love Pettine's approach so far and what he's shown, but he has the advantage of it being preseason, there not being film on him in Green Bay, and honestly significantly upgraded coverage units.  

 

 Execution.  

Yes.  Without a doubt, Pettine has more talent in the secondary to pull it off.  He also isn't a guy that will run something just because it is in the playbook.  He's going to run what he trusts and what he knows will be effective.  I'm sure as the season wears on we'll see more wrinkles.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2018 at 7:07 AM, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I think this is a very good point, and often forgotten in the emphasis on edge rushers.  Eric Walden was a street free agent when he was signed late in October, but was the defensive player of the week 2 weeks later- not because he was a previously undiscovered superstar, but because the rest of the defense played so well that it created opportunities for him.

I can't help but think that we will play a lot of 4-3 under with Clark as the 1 technique, Daniels as the 3, and Wilkerson as the 5.  Perry will be the open side rush backer.  Matthews can play any of the 4 linebacker spots and can be moved around.  In this set, the interplay of the closed side backer and the 5 technique creates a need for a different skill set than what a Capers style 3-4 needed, and a guy like Fackrell and his ability to play in space now becomes a viable entity on that side, and Wilkerson becomes the sought after help for the pass rush.  If however, you put Matthews as the closed side backer combined with Wilkerson next to him, I would think that front will be hard for offenses to block as they can overload either side without tipping their hand and still play the run aggressively.

This front puts 5 players in position to rush from the standard set, and allows the defense to disguise who the 4 rushers will be even without advertising a blitz, something that Capers lost with his need to play the 2-4-5 sub package all the time.  The sub packages can then sub at the 2 ILB positions and preserve the strength of the front.

If the secondary can hold up their end, which may be subject to growing pains with the young players, I think this defense could be very good.

Excellent post from a few months back
Gonna be interesting to watch them roll it out vs two divisional opponents to start the season. Typically, the divisional opponents know you best, but the start of the 2018 season features a lot of newness in GB, chi and even minny too with a new QB and a new OC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Excellent post from a few months back
Gonna be interesting to watch them roll it out vs two divisional opponents to start the season. Typically, the divisional opponents know you best, but the start of the 2018 season features a lot of newness in GB, chi and even minny too with a new QB and a new OC

Nagler said yesterday that while local media aren't really allowed to talk scheme, he indeed saw a lot of four man fronts with the "heavy nickle."

Props to you @Ragnar Danneskjold

I've been wanting to see the 4-3 under for quiiite some time. @SSG can probably attest.  

I know Dom ran it from time to time the last few years.  I like the flexibility.  As you said, it isn't hard to defend the run or pass.  It is a great defense to run vs. Hurry-up offenses.  I also think we have the horses to make it happen.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Cheech said:

Nagler said yesterday that while local media aren't really allowed to talk scheme, he indeed saw a lot of four man fronts with the "heavy nickle."

Props to you @Ragnar Danneskjold

Yah, I can't take credit for it though.

I just went back to the basics of the Rex Ryan defense and how it was played when Pettine was with the Jets and the Bills.

I would wait and see though.  They could come out and play a totally different defense than what I said.  I am really looking forward to the next couple of weeks to see what the new system is like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

snippet from an article in The Athletic.
Q&A with Jim Leonhard who played in Pettine's defense at several stops in the NFL

 

" I’m not sure if you’ll be able to watch the opener Sunday night against the Chicago Bears, but if there’s a time when you catch a Packers game this season, as somebody who played in this defense and knows it pretty well, what things will you be looking for? What will you be interested in seeing?

To me, as a former player in the system and as a coach, it’s trying to read between the lines a little bit and seeing who he’s trying to feature and kind of how they’re trying to attack an offense. I always thought that was the beauty of what that system was. It’s flexible enough that you can make it whatever you want to make it. That will be probably the biggest thing I want to see is how aggressive they play and kind of who is getting set up to make plays because that’s honestly who has earned a lot of the trust, over time, to make those plays."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't have a subscription to the Athletic(And won't since it is Cohen who got that gig), but Wilde RTd his piece from January and this Leonard quote stood out:

“Creativity, I don’t think that always necessarily means doing a thousand things. The creativity (in Buffalo) was, ‘How do you get (your pass rushers) 1-on-1s?’ The thought process was, ‘If we get two of those guys 1-on-1s, one of them is going to win. Every time.’ 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pettine's defense has already been set..at least by the writers who cover the NFL. They see the Packer's strength in the backend, but say nothing about the Dline. I see the Packer's defense as strong on the line and in the back end with some pretty good players chasing the ball carriers in the middle. Are they a top 5 defense- no. Are they a top 10 defense- I sure think so. 

What I see this year from Green Bay is some real explosion from the offense, making the other team play catch-up. Green Bay's defense will be bringing pressure from multiple areas and have enough pass coverage to let that pressure get to the QB. Philbin and Pettine will provide a blueprint that will be very favorable to the Packers this year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, thank you, thank you Junior.

The D was far from flawless.

It looked confused just like the past several years during the first 2 drives.

But, adjustments were made.

Pressure was manufactured (it sure didn't come from Clay).

Most importantly, only 16 points were allowed and that, in turn, allowed the best QB in the game to do what he does.

So great having a competent and possibly even good defensive coordinator.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The defense was multiple. 3-4, 4-3, 4-3 under were all used and never predictable.

Pettine did a great job of overloading one side of the line to get a free rusher.  

Besides the first 2 drives, the D never looked confused.  Adjustments were made quickly presnap,  which was impressive given the motion the bears used.  

The secondary (both the coverage disguises and the execution) forced their QB to hold on to the ball and actually gave our rush a chance to get home.

More than anything, they made so many fundamental plays.  Contain was blown a few times, but not nearly what we saw in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Herbie_Hancock said:

Alot of missed tackles last night it felt like

There was some of that in the run game especially it seemed though to me like the defence's arses were clenched up with the putrid offense. Just my take they seemed to try and do to much, once AR came back at the half and had a nice drive they seemed to settle in a bit better. They had trouble though with Cohen on almost every touch.

I did like the 6-7 DB game that Pettine played that was some nice stuff 3 S look with 4 CB's that sure made us fast out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...