Mike Pettine Defense

[Arthur Penske]

 

[vegas492]

18 hours ago, Stevein2012 said:

I don't think Perry was a bad signing but he's been a bad investment.  The money spent on Perry, Matthews (last couple seasons), Cobb etc... may or may not have been spent better on someone else but it's just a fact it's not currently money well spent and too many players like that adding up certainly hurts a teams chance at being competitive.  If we weren't paying Matthews and Cobb this year we may have signed another player who would perform better or we'd have 20m extra to spend next season, it's a loss of opportunity. 

Similar to the non signings of guys like Peppers, Hayward and Cobb, they weren't necessarily bad decisions at the time but it's still true and fair to point out that not signing those guys or even trying to sign them was a bad move.

So...you would have advocated releasing Matthews and Cobb this year.  Again, for what?

What WR were you going to get?  Only now you are replacing Cobb and Jordy.  Even without releasing Cobb, the club went after Allen Robinson hard, with large dollars, and he didn't choose to come here.

How are you replacing Clay?  Despite not putting up the big sack numbers, he is part of a defense that is leading the league in sacks, and I've seen him do some dirty work the last couple of games that has freed up other guys to make plays.  Who in last year's free agency was going to fill the Matthews void on defense?  Or would you have really said you were fine with Gilbert or Fackrell as a starting EDGE player on Week One?  I know I would not have said that then.

So, you have an extra $20 million under the cap, this year.  Who cares?  You gain that space next year anyway, at least with Matthews.

I'd argue watching Peppers leave was the right thing.  They paid Perry, because Perry produced.  Julius was old and looking worn down.  He went home and got into a great situation for the end of his great career.  No issue with letting him go at all.

Cobb.  They kept Cobb.  You can argue against his contract, but at the time he was young and putting up enormous numbers.  I ran those numbers, back then, and found that 2/3 were due to the scramble drill, therefore his value was highest in GB and with Rodgers than elsewhere...and here is where he signed.  

Hayward...been hashed over a million times on here.  No one batted an eye.  Reason being two rookie corners that played extremely well and were expected to take the next step forward.  Shields was established.  Hayward had injury issues.  No one cared when he left.  Everyone has taken notice of what he's doing now, and that is fine.  He's being utilized correctly and those two rookie corners ended up being poor.  Sammy got his bell rung too many times.  Football moves on.

[TransientTexan]

6 hours ago, vegas492 said:

So, you have an extra $20 million under the cap, this year.  Who cares?  You gain that space next year anyway, at least with Matthews.

well, you can carry over unused cap space, so there is a difference. but the whole thing is just hindsight analysis. 

[AlexGreen#20]

For anybody that thinks I'm full of **** when I say that the Packers aren't emphasizing the OLBs for sacks. Here are the 3rd and longer than 1 against the Patriots

+++

https://imgur.com/WUs07g7

Showing 7 guys at the snap, Fackrell, Clark, Whitehead, Martinez, Daniels, Clay, Jones

Fackrell, Whitehead, Martinez, and Clay all drop. This is a 3 man rush with Clark, Daniels, and Jones.

The Center sees that both A gap defenders drop and he relaxes a little. The Right Guard is expecting help when Daniels goes inside and the Center doesn't see it until too late.

+++

https://imgur.com/YxmAmuJ

Showing 5 at the snap, Clay, Daniels, Clark, Whitehead, Fackrell

Whitehead drops off, Clay gets chipped by the Tight End. Fackrell gets chipped by the RB. 

Fackrell leads into the stunt with Clark. Clay and Clark both put some light pressure on here, but don't get home.

+++

https://imgur.com/tkNaFJ5

Showing 5 at the snap, Clay, Whitehead, Clark, Daniels, Fackrell

Whitehead drops off, Fackrell gets chipped by the RB.

Clay forces Brady off his spot here. It's not heavy pressure, but that delay forced him to tuck this ball rather than throwing to an open receiver. Rather than throwing it late across the field after resettling, Brady checks it down short of the first down.

+++

https://imgur.com/0E9p2Lp

This was 3rd and 2 and probably not real reflective of the pressure package but I included it because it makes me angry. 

The Packers are reading a dive here. Lowry is going to submarine into backside A gap and Clark is going to step into the Playside A gap. Perry moves into the B gap. The gap between the Guard and the Tackle, and he gets double teamed. Not shockingly, the 260 lb OLB gets combo'd off of. Martinez makes the tackle, but it's 5 yards downfield because he's got an offensive lineman in his face.

I hate how we ask the OLBs to fill inside gaps and ask ILBs to fill outside gaps over the top. I literally have trouble typing the previous sentence because it makes no sense to me.

+++

https://imgur.com/VG2BAaG

Showing 4 at the snap, Perry, Daniels, Lowry,  Gilbert 

Perry gets chipped by the TE. Gilbert gets chipped by the RB. Daniels gets double teamed by the Guard/Center combo. Lowry gets the single blocking. Perry gets pushed way inside by the chip (and it may very well be intentional to cut under Daniels with the double team) and he and Lowry manage to get just enough pressure to move Brady off of his spot.

+++

https://imgur.com/54FOR8D

My favorite of these rushes. There's been a cat and mouse game going on all game. The Packers leave somebody to cover White in man to man coverage and White then chips the edge rusher, leaving you with a useless rusher and a guy standing around waiting to cover somebody who isn't running a route.

Here, White is thinking this is the same thing. Except this time when the inside linebacker that everybody is assuming is covering White, is going to come on the blitz. So when White goes to chip, it opens up a free gap for the blitzer.

Showing 4 Fackrell, Daniels, Clark, Clay.

Clay will drop into coverage. Fackrell will get chipped. Morrison will come on a free rush and get the sack.

+++

https://imgur.com/iHMnCeb

Same call as the first play. Showing 2DL, 4LBs, and a DB. All 4 LBs drop. 

This time the center is ready and when Lowry cuts inside it gets picked up.

Got off the field because Brady just totally biffs this throw. That's a huge facepalm if you're a Patriots fan.

+++

https://imgur.com/54FOR8D

Showing 6 here, Clay, Clark, Fackrell, Burks, Daniels, Jackson. 

Fackrell is playing 3T and Daniels outside the Tackle for reasons I'm not entirely clear on. 

Fackrell drops from the 3T to the opposite flat. Burks and Jackson also drop. Morrison comes on a blitz.

Really clean pocket for Brady here, easy first down.

+++

On these 7 "pressure situation" plays.

We rushed 8 OLBs. We're barely rushing 1.1 OLBs per snap. 

Clay: 3

Fackrell: 3

Perry: 1

Gilbert: 1

+++

On those 8 rushes

The OLB was chipped on 6 of them.

Clay was the only rusher who wasn't chipped, and it happened twice. He got a pressure on one and nothing on the other, but he also got a pressure on the play that he was chipped.

Perry got a pressure on his lone rush even being chipped.

Neither Fackrell nor Gilbert got a pressure.

++++

 

It's extremely difficult to get sacks as an edge rusher if you're not getting pressure package rushes. 8 pressure package rushes total for your OLBs is nothing.

 

It's extremely difficult to get sacks as an edge rusher if you're getting chipped on every play. Getting chipped on 75% of rushes is crazy. 

 

 

[Packer_ESP]

4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

https://imgur.com/54FOR8D

My favorite of these rushes. There's been a cat and mouse game going on all game. The Packers leave somebody to cover White in man to man coverage and White then chips the edge rusher, leaving you with a useless rusher and a guy standing around waiting to cover somebody who isn't running a route.

Here, White is thinking this is the same thing. Except this time when the inside linebacker that everybody is assuming is covering White, is going to come on the blitz. So when White goes to chip, it opens up a free gap for the blitzer.

Showing 4 Fackrell, Daniels, Clark, Clay.

Clay will drop into coverage. Fackrell will get chipped. Morrison will come on a free rush and get the sack.

I may be ultra dumb, but I think your GIFs mixed up, this one doesn't match your description.

Great post as usual.

[cannondale]

Is Petine not using OLB's to rush because that's his scheme, or because they suck ?

[Arthur Penske]

11 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

For anybody that thinks I'm full of **** when I say that the Packers aren't emphasizing the OLBs for sacks. Here are the 3rd and longer than 1 against the Patriots

 

 

 

I don't doubt it, but I find myself thinking, is Pettine doing this because of scheme or is it an example of him not being stubborn like Capers and playing to the strength of his players/ Scheming pressure other ways because he knows the OLBs are going to get it on their own?

[AlexGreen#20]

5 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

I don't doubt it, but I find myself thinking, is Pettine doing this because of scheme or is it an example of him not being stubborn like Capers and playing to the strength of his players/ Scheming pressure other ways because he knows the OLBs are going to get it on their own?

Look at the sack numbers of his edge guys everywhere except Buffalo. This is very much his scheme. 

[MacReady]

11 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Look at the sack numbers of his edge guys everywhere except Buffalo. This is very much his scheme. 

I think you're gonna have a hard time convincing people of what you're trying to convince them of for two reasons:

1. They want to hate Matthews/Perry.  They want to complain about no pass rush even though we lead the league in sacks. 

2. They're terrified it means we might not draft a pass rusher this coming draft. 

 

[AlexGreen#20]

11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I think you're gonna have a hard time convincing people of what you're trying to convince them of for two reasons:

1. They want to hate Matthews/Perry.  They want to complain about no pass rush even though we lead the league in sacks. 

2. They're terrified it means we might not draft a pass rusher this coming draft. 

 

Agreed with everything you're saying, but I think a lot of it is that just like it takes players time to adjust to a scheme, it takes the fans time to adjust as well.

Even though everybody knows Capers is gone, they're still expecting the same stats from players.

[PACKRULE]

14 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

It's extremely difficult to get sacks as an edge rusher if you're not getting pressure package rushes. 8 pressure package rushes total for your OLBs is nothing.

 

It's extremely difficult to get sacks as an edge rusher if you're getting chipped on every play. Getting chipped on 75% of rushes is crazy. 

 

 

Nice work AG and thanks for posting and taking the time. If anyone remembers Pettine with the Jets they should know the OLB's aren't sexy in this system. Wasn't Pace the better known Jets OLB and he was relatively unknown when it came to sack numbers and popularity.

[PACKRULE]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Agreed with everything you're saying, but I think a lot of it is that just like it takes players time to adjust to a scheme, it takes the fans time to adjust as well.

Even though everybody knows Capers is gone, they're still expecting the same stats from players.

Very true, although even with Capers system as a fan it took me time to see that often guys had responsibilities and can't just pin their ears back every play. With that said Clay has had to adjust allot this year to playing much more in space. We've seen him break his ankles a couple times already. I wonder if he'll want to stay in this system or want out of town seeing his not getting the sexy work he used to.

[PACKRULE]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

I think you're gonna have a hard time convincing people of what you're trying to convince them of for two reasons:

1. They want to hate Matthews/Perry.  They want to complain about no pass rush even though we lead the league in sacks. 

2. They're terrified it means we might not draft a pass rusher this coming draft. 

 

You do have a point OP but some of that hate on Perry is warranted. Clay i would agree with you often it's not as much. With that said you have to figure he'll want out of GB with this scheme? thoughts?

[MacReady]

Just now, PACKRULE said:

You do have a point OP but some of that hate on Perry is warranted.

Is it though?  If his job isn't to get sacks, why would you judge him on getting sacks?  If Perry is doing his job in spite of his job being thankless, he deserves more apologies than blame.  Same with Clay.  Clay is making some mistakes outside of his lack of sacks, but if you got both those guys out there shouldering all the blame for their perceived lack of usefulness when they're doing exactly what's asked of them...

[vegas492]

16 hours ago, TransientTexan said:

well, you can carry over unused cap space, so there is a difference. but the whole thing is just hindsight analysis. 

They are already carrying over 9.8M.  So again...who cares if you are carrying over $29..8M or 9.8M?  It comes down to production and you were not replacing production with that money.  GB had plenty of money in free agency to make runs at guys, despite keeping those other guys, the runs just didn't all pan out.

Agree on hindsight....very much.