incognito_man Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 hours ago, gopackgo27 said: That just ain't completely true. Tied for 4th in Sacks, 2nd in Sack %. Highest YPA, Comp %, Passer Rating in 3 years. Are there are areas where we are worse? Sure, our Run D hasn't been great & we need to generate more turnovers but this Defense looks 10x better than anything Capers has trotted out there recently. We've also been decimated by injuries. How many miscommunications & breakdowns did Capers Defenses have? How many times did he only have 10 guys on the field? How many guys came out basically saying they didn't love the scheme? How many guys played better AFTER they left Capers Defense? Teams literally knew what Capers Defenses were going to do (see Cam Newton vs Clay), I love the way Pettine disguises his blitzes/coverages, always keeping the other team guessing. Seems to be a lot of interest out there in Capers too huh? We'll just have to agree to disagree here. All of this is accounted for (and more!) in DVOA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Offense offense offense - and yet we are hearing more and more about teams and their defense and running game being successful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 know what counts the same as a 3 and out? a 7 and out where they get a 1st down, take a sack, and go for it and fail on 4th and 2 gaining 0 net yards in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 53 minutes ago, cannondale said: Offense offense offense - and yet we are hearing more and more about teams and their defense and running game being successful It would be difficult to imagine that defenses could be less successful in the second half of the season when compared to the first half of the season where we've had the biggest uptick in scoring in decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 17 hours ago, incognito_man said: I prefer intellectual fanatics I'd recommend a board that discusses chess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 16 hours ago, Acrid Josher said: I vageuly recall reading some years ago that defenses typically show their biggest improvement in the first year of getting a new defensive coordinator. Unfortunately I can't find that study anymore through googling, so I was hoping someone here might be able to provide a similar article that looks at that premise of when you expect defenses to peak under a new DC. (Maybe I got it wrong and it's year two or three)? If we can get an answer on that it might have a bearing on how we judge Pettine's performance so far. There's an article on Fansided ( barf) that goes through Vic Fangio's career, team by team. And it shows the 1st year improvement followed by a drop off in performance. Same thing with Capers ( and Fangio/Capers worked together a couple of times) There are many Packer fans who ripped on Capers for following the same pattern as every other DC as if it was specific to Capers. It isn't Whenever you get a new DC, the GM tries to find players that fit the new defense and they make a significant investment on that side of the ball. In the case of GB - they got Woodson, then Raji and Matthews and the defense really took off I believe in players, not plays. And I'd suggest that the improvements are due to new energy and an influx of talent. Then things level off, the schedule gets harder and the Leagues OC's all have film to study. Lather Rinse Repeat We can go through Wade Phillips career and see the exact same things. In Dallas, he didn't have the talent, got fired and moved on. In Denver, he had Von Miller and Aquib Talib among many other talented defenders and won a Super Bowl. DCs matter and they certainly bring something to the table - we've seen it with Pettine already. But the rest of it isn't a mystery to me. Better players = better defense and the arrival of a new DC induces GMs/ Teams to make significant investments to help the new guy bring it to fruition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 20 hours ago, vegas492 said: Since when is being a fan, short for FANATIC supposed to be intellectual? I mean, come on, how many posts does Norm have? He freely admits to not knowing all that much, but he does see things and understands things and has merit when he speaks...as a fan of the Green Bay Packers. (Norm, just picking you out because you never claim to be "in the know". And...I picked you because I know you can take it.) And absolutely none of that has anything to do with the DVOA metric. A metric that you, and I, as (somewhat) educated people have to take as gospel (or fact) because the creators of said metric will not disclose their formula for the creation of the metric. And still, I'll give you a "like" for your response as I appreciate the back and forth with you. Always have. It is okay to disagree. And...you deserve one for quoting someone born in Russia speaking about the American culture. I only caught my name scrolling and swore it said I claim to be in the know lol I was like wait what. I used to be far more intense with it but over years I realized I don't know **** and now I just enjoy the ride. It's more fun than trying to be right about everything IMO. As far as this debate goes, I was gonna make this comment before but I truly feel like we have some really sharp fans, on this site. Overall, sure, fans are clueless. Twitter comments/replies really show that as much as anything. Even people here I don't like much sometimes make really good points that I can get on board with or at least understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Norm said: I only caught my name scrolling and swore it said I claim to be in the know lol I was like wait what. I used to be far more intense with it but over years I realized I don't know **** and now I just enjoy the ride. It's more fun than trying to be right about everything IMO. As far as this debate goes, I was gonna make this comment before but I truly feel like we have some really sharp fans, on this site. Overall, sure, fans are clueless. Twitter comments/replies really show that as much as anything. Even people here I don't like much sometimes make really good points that I can get on board with or at least understand. I'm happy that you took no offense to my post, Norm. I wanted to pick someone who I thought viewed themselves as a fan, as I do. Only I get too caught up with being "right" all too often and you rarely do. It is a great quality to have, Norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, vegas492 said: I'm happy that you took no offense to my post, Norm. I wanted to pick someone who I thought viewed themselves as a fan, as I do. Only I get too caught up with being "right" all too often and you rarely do. It is a great quality to have, Norm. It's human nature to want to predict things. I still do it. I'm just not very vocal about it. Speaking of that, how many TDs does mahomes have now. I tried to get my buddy's bookie to get me an over under on 50 and the guy wouldn't make me a line on it. I'm still sad. And nah, you'd never offend me lol. I don't get offended, especially on the internet haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 17 hours ago, incognito_man said: All of this is accounted for (and more!) in DVOA Our defensive DVOA got worse this week (from 23 to 25) after that performance against a top 10 DVOA offense. I just don't like that stat this year. Fails hard on the much hated eye test, usually it's right in line with what you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Our defensive DVOA got worse this week (from 23 to 25) after that performance against a top 10 DVOA offense. I just don't like that stat this year. Fails hard on the much hated eye test, usually it's right in line with what you see. Agreed. Models are imperfect. This one needs some tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Fails hard on the much hated eye test, usually it's right in line with what you see. I was wondering about the eye test.... The NFL spends about a quarter billion $$ shipping scouts and personnel guys around the country so they can apply the eye test to college prospects. Isn't film review an eye test too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: I was wondering about the eye test.... The NFL spends about a quarter billion $$ shipping scouts and personnel guys around the country so they can apply the eye test to college prospects. Isn't film review an eye test too ? I bet if there were a superior model to scout prospects they'd use that instead Business opportunity??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, incognito_man said: I bet if there were a superior model to scout prospects they'd use that instead Business opportunity??? Perhaps. The human brain is still...by far...the most complex, powerful and impressive "technology" in the entire universe. My view: The mistake many make is using technology/modeling to try and replace humans, the true value lies in using technology to assist humans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Shanedorf said: Perhaps. The human brain is still...by far...the most complex, powerful and impressive "technology" in the entire universe. My view: The mistake many make is using technology/modeling to try and replace humans, the true value lies in using technology to assist humans Define "Power". When it comes to quickly repeating simple calculations, we're horrendous compared to a computer. When it comes to remembering just about anything, we're horrendous compared to a computer. When it comes to highly accurate inputs or outputs, we're horrendous compared to a computer. The human brain is the best piece of technology in the known universe for multi-tasking many many complex processes at a time and having the most diverse array of input and output accompaniments of any computer. It's also the only piece of technology that is capable of setting it's own process functions. Some might argue that the true value in technology lies in using human's ability to generalize and create a process to assist the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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