incognito_man Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 43 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: From Ben Fennell at The Athletic "The Packers defensive personnel (particularly their DTs and LBs) aren’t well-equipped to play the pass. The defensive tackles are space-eating, line-of-scrimmage dwellers and the linebackers are downhill run stoppers. On first-down run situations, offenses can get the Packers into a base personnel defense with few defensive backs and then sell run action to hold the front seven" The statistics tell the story how opposing teams are attacking the Packers. First down: 116.3 QB rating (31st) – 19 plays of 25 yards Second down: 98.6 QB rating (22nd) – nine plays of 25 yards Third down: 74.3 QB rating (6th) – four plays of 25 yards I recall this was an issue in Capers world too, especially with all the beef had on the DL: Raji, Pickett, Jolly and Green too. Teams stopped trying to run against that front and rolled out the play action... QBs had plenty of time to scan the field on early downs I feel like the opposite was true with Capers, that he ran nickel as the base to prevent exactly this leaving us more susceptible to the run early. Maybe I'm misremembering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Maybe I'm misremembering. Over the course of a 9 year career in GB, things evolve and the two comments are not mutually exclusive Capers went away from the Big Beef plan in part because of getting gashed by play action - and started playing more nickle Waldo did a pretty good write- up on it many years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Capers is probably still frantically scribbling in a notebook trying to figure out how to defend the read option to this day. I heard he visited some pee wee leagues but is still baffled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, cannondale said: Capers is probably still frantically scribbling in a notebook trying to figure out how to defend the read option to this day. I heard he visited some pee wee leagues but is still baffled. My thought on this is that I would always choose to obliterate the QB. The QB gets creamed a few times and they aren't so apt to run it very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, {Family Ghost} said: My thought on this is that I would always choose to obliterate the QB. The QB gets creamed a few times and they aren't so apt to run it very long. in principle I think this is correct. In practice we saw the ravens try this and get penalties on every play despite it technically being a "legal" play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cakeshoppe Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, {Family Ghost} said: My thought on this is that I would always choose to obliterate the QB. The QB gets creamed a few times and they aren't so apt to run it very long. The read option is not particularly difficult to defend on paper. You stick to your man and stay disciplined to do that every time they run the play. Ech player plays their assignment and trusts their teammates to do the same. Depends on formation, but it's going to be something like ILB has dive responsibility, OLB QB responsibility, and CB has pitch/flare responsibility (if applicable). We got hit so hard by it because (mostly) Walden could not keep his damn eyes off Frank Gore. But yeah, if you're an edge player, that's your opportunity to really tee off on a QB. Our players had zero discipline, which I'd chalk up to coaching since it became an issue for a few years. Walden was the worst in that game, and was probably targeted because of it, but Matthews gave up a big one too and Moses gave up a few small ones where he lucked out because another player was able to cover his missed responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Year 2 with Blunt Force Trauma calling the defensive shots Pettine will have more experience in the NFC North and in the NFC overall after spending most of his career coaching in the junior league, AFC Year 2 of Das Gute sourcing players for his defense, he needs fresh meat on every level of the defense No more Winston Moss ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 On 12/27/2018 at 11:49 AM, Shanedorf said: From Ben Fennell at The Athletic "The Packers defensive personnel (particularly their DTs and LBs) aren’t well-equipped to play the pass. The defensive tackles are space-eating, line-of-scrimmage dwellers and the linebackers are downhill run stoppers. On first-down run situations, offenses can get the Packers into a base personnel defense with few defensive backs and then sell run action to hold the front seven" The statistics tell the story how opposing teams are attacking the Packers. First down: 116.3 QB rating (31st) – 19 plays of 25 yards Second down: 98.6 QB rating (22nd) – nine plays of 25 yards Third down: 74.3 QB rating (6th) – four plays of 25 yards I recall this was an issue in Capers world too, especially with all the beef had on the DL: Raji, Pickett, Jolly and Green too. Teams stopped trying to run against that front and rolled out the play action... QBs had plenty of time to scan the field on early downs I'm wondering how far away we are from teams just rolling out safeties at LB (see: Chargers against the Ravens) and the traditional ILB going extinct. An Oren Burks/Josh Jones ILB pairing is odd but may prove to be more efficient given that it would be less susceptible to coverage problems than the Martinez/Morrison combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: Year 2 with Blunt Force Trauma calling the defensive shots Pettine will have more experience in the NFC North and in the NFC overall after spending most of his career coaching in the junior league, AFC Year 2 of Das Gute sourcing players for his defense, he needs fresh meat on every level of the defense No more Winston Moss ! Hopefully LaFleur brings in a hamstring masseuse. Probably would be the biggest acquisition our defense could make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, rcon14 said: I'm wondering how far away we are from teams just rolling out safeties at LB (see: Chargers against the Ravens) and the traditional ILB going extinct. An Oren Burks/Josh Jones ILB pairing is odd but may prove to be more efficient given that it would be less susceptible to coverage problems than the Martinez/Morrison combo. Didn't the whole trend start with Buccanon from Arizona? Man, most everyone (Outpost excluded "props") loved him. Thought he was amazing. But really, he was a liability against the run. Which brings me to Burks. Yuck. He was terrible this year. Flat footed, no awareness, no recognition skills, no toughness. This was a red shirt year. He has the speed, but he really needs to study tape to see what is coming so he can attack it, because if he sees it? He's very quick to it. Problem is...he stands flat footed when he doesn't know what is coming. Wouldn't shock me if GB drafted another ILB to compete with him. Someone else posted about Josh Jones. He's got the instincts (run game), but not the size. Would be great if he could add 15 pounds and not lose speed or quickness, then he can man that inside spot. But a combo of those two would be a bad idea...today. Martinez had a fine year. He's a leader. He's improving and before he injured that foot, he was flying around and knocking guys backwards. I really like him. Taking him off the field is a bad idea. Grabbing another good one to pair with him is a good idea. Maybe it's Burks next year. Maybe it is Jones. Maybe it is a draft pick, maybe it is a combo of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Didn't the whole trend start with Buccanon from Arizona? Man, most everyone (Outpost excluded "props") loved him. Thought he was amazing. But really, he was a liability against the run. Which brings me to Burks. Yuck. He was terrible this year. Flat footed, no awareness, no recognition skills, no toughness. This was a red shirt year. He has the speed, but he really needs to study tape to see what is coming so he can attack it, because if he sees it? He's very quick to it. Problem is...he stands flat footed when he doesn't know what is coming. Wouldn't shock me if GB drafted another ILB to compete with him. Someone else posted about Josh Jones. He's got the instincts (run game), but not the size. Would be great if he could add 15 pounds and not lose speed or quickness, then he can man that inside spot. But a combo of those two would be a bad idea...today. Martinez had a fine year. He's a leader. He's improving and before he injured that foot, he was flying around and knocking guys backwards. I really like him. Taking him off the field is a bad idea. Grabbing another good one to pair with him is a good idea. Maybe it's Burks next year. Maybe it is Jones. Maybe it is a draft pick, maybe it is a combo of both. Running the football is inefficient though. That is kind of my point. I don't really need good run defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, rcon14 said: Running the football is inefficient though. That is kind of my point. I don't really need good run defenders. But Jones is terrible covering space. Burks was flat out terrible at everything this year. Guess we will agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: Ol' Blunt Force Trauma man needs to trim his ear hairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 On 12/27/2018 at 12:40 PM, Shanedorf said: Waldo did a pretty good write- up on it many years ago Justo pretended it was his, not many years ago...probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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